I have been reading the Bible since the 70s
But, was it the CORRECTED version?
Posted on 04/21/2024 5:33:50 PM PDT by grumpa
A. Haven’t dispensationalists been consistently wrong about prophecy? — All of these men and many more have made false prophecies: Hal Lindsey, Jack Van Impe, Chuck Smith, Pat Robertson, Edgar Whisenant, Benny Hinn, Harold Camping, etc. etc. 1948 and False Prophecies
B. Questions about the church ―
1. Do you believe that Israel and the church are different bodies, even though the Bible teaches that they are the same body (Ephesians 2:15; 3:6)―and that there is no distinction between Jew and Greek? (Acts 15:9; Romans 2:28-29; 10:12; Galatians 3:28-29; Colossians 3:11)
2. If the church age is only a parenthesis, why do so many passages teach that Jesus reigns from heaven as King of Kings now (Isaiah 66:1; Matthew 28:18; John 5:22; Ephesians 1:20-22; 1 Timothy 6:15-16; Hebrews 1:1-12; 7:25; 8:1-4; Revelation 1:6) and forever? (2 Samuel 7:13; Isaiah 9:6-7; Daniel 2:44; 4:3, 34; 7:14, 18, 27; Luke 1:33; John 5:22; Acts 7:48-50; 10:36; 1 Corinthians 15:25; Ephesians 3:21; Hebrews 1:12; 5:6; 6:20; 7:24; 8:1-4; 2 Peter 1:11; Revelation 1:5; 3:21; 5:13; 11:15) Further, the New Covenant is forever (Ezekiel 37:26; Hebrews 13:20) and the gospel is eternal (Revelation 14:6). Age without end, Amen (Ephesians 3:21).
C. Questions about the temple ―
1. Doesn’t the New Testament explain that while the physical temple was about to be destroyed (Matthew 24:2; 34), Christ became the spiritual temple and cornerstone, while Christians are the living stones built on the foundation of the apostles? (Ephesians 2:19-22; 1 Peter 2:4-8; Revelation 21:14, 22)
2. If there is to be a re-built temple with animal sacrifices and rituals, wouldn’t that be denigrating to Christ’s ONCE-FOR-ALL sacrifice? (Hebrews 10:10)
3. Dispensationalists think that Ezekiel’s temple (Ezekiel 44-48) is literal, but also say that bloody sacrifices in the rebuilt temple will be only a memorial. However, Ezekiel’s vision refers to these sacrifices as literally making atonement (Ezekiel 45:15, 17, 20). How is it that the dispensational position is not Contradictory?
4. Can you find a single verse in the New Testament that says anything about the need for a re-built temple?
5. Why does Scripture say God does not dwell in temples made by hands anymore? (Acts 7:48; 17:24)
6. If we are in the New Covenant era, which Scripture says is FOREVER (Hebrews 13:20; Revelation 14:6), why would God go back to a temple system of the Old Covenant which Paul called bondage (Galatians 4)?
In all of the discussions I've read on FR on the religion forum, I've never read anything as outlandish as a "second, Second Coming."
Only the biggest event in human history and no documentation the first Second Coming has ever happened.
And as you guys know, we've had some doozy conversations.
I do not teach a second second coming.
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>>To: ealgeone<<
Once again, has the Parousia already happened?
Yes, Jesus came in judgment in finality in AD 70.
But if you want to find passage that holds out hope for a second Second Coming, go to Acts 1:9-11.
29 posted on 4/10/2024, 9:30:59 PM by grumpa [ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 27 | View Replies | Report Abuse]
*****
You can run, but you can't hide from your major blunder of an error.
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Chuck....do you even understand the context of the passage you're alleging promotes a "second, Second Coming"????
So many blunders.
So many distortions.
So many lies in Preterism.
Repent Mr. Meek....
Where is the 3rd temple being built umm
Certainly, but listing some who went beyond what is written does not render preterism true, which likewise fails as they can only wish that Revelation has been fulfilled as they (partial or full) allege.
Table of Contents
1. Four times the Son of man comes with clouds and power in His Kingdom. 1
2. Midrashic fulfillments of Messianic prophecy decodes the Olivet Discourse. 1
Psalm 8:6 dual prophecy decodes the Olivet Discourse. 1
Isaiah 7:14 dual prophecy decodes the Olivet Discourse. 1
2 Samuel 7:12-15 dual prophecy decodes the Olivet Discourse. 1
Daniel 8:9-14; 11:21-45 dual prophecy decodes the Olivet Discourse. 1
Mathew 2:23 triple prophecy decodes the Olivet Discourse. 1
Haggai 2:3-9 triple prophecy decodes the Olivet Discourse. 1
3. Book of Isaiah and the five-fold prophecy of Isaiah 53 decodes the Olivet Discourse. 1
4. Decoding the Olivet Discourse with the 1st century Midrashic narration style: 1
Decoding the Olivet Discourse into 3 distinct eschatological events. 1
Daniel’s Abomination of Desolation quad prophecy decodes the Olivet Discourse. 1
5. Christians were raptured before Jerusalem surrounded by armies: Lk 21:20. 1
6. The Confused “Ages” of Full-Preterism make mush of time. 1
7. The Kingdom of Old Testament prophecy is the church. 1
8. The entire first century church went extinct on Pentecost Sunday, 22nd June AD 66. 1
9. Catalogue of future 2nd coming passages not fulfilled in AD 70. 1
10. Full-Preterists teach an “invisible” second coming and “shut door” theology. 1
11. Full-Preterists say no Bible books were written after AD 70: Jn 21:20-23. 1
12. Full-Preterists have no Hell for wicked men who die after AD 70. 1
13. Full-Preterism violates the justice principle of God: 2 Thess 1:5-10. 1
14. Full-Preterists say there is no resurrection of the dead after AD 70. 1
15. The Full-Preterist view of how living bodies are changed into immortal. 1
16. Marriage abolished after AD 70. 1
17. Lord’s Supper and weekly Sunday worship is extinct after AD 70. 1
18. Full-Preterists deny water baptism was commanded by Christ, Peter or Paul. 1
19. Full-Preterists say the physical world will last forever: 1
20. Jews had to keep both the Law of Moses and the Law Christ until AD 70. 1
21. Full-Preterists reject that the kingdom was fully established on Pentecost AD 33. 1
22. For Full-Preterists, THE END, never ends: 1 Corinthians 15:22–28. 1
23. Full-Preterists misinterpret the 70 weeks of Daniel 9:24-29. 1
24. Full-Preterists do not believe in the Devil or demons exists today. 1
25. Full-Preterists say Josephus knew the “day and hour” of 2nd coming: Mt 24:35-36. 1
26. Catalogue of Full-Preterist proof texts. 1
At least the fore-telling of men such as Smith can claim their expected date yet awaits future fulfillment.
Full (or “Extreme”) preterists believe all Biblical prophecy has been fulfilled, including…
• the great tribulation
• the Second Coming of Jesus
• the bodily resurrection of believers
• and the great white throne judgment
Such are imaginative preterists, who are as Hymenaeus and Philetus:
“…And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus; Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.” (2 Timothy 2:17-18)
Looking for contemporary attestation for the 2nd coming having taken place in 70AD, so-called "church fathers" did not mention Christ’s Second Coming as having already occurred.
Norman Geisler points out that it wasn’t until the early 17th century–when preterist thinking was applied by the Jesuit Catholic scholar Luiz de Alcazar (1554-1613) to the Book of Revelation–that it was given very serious consideration.
Men such as •
Papias
• Clement of Rome
• Ignatius
• Polycarp
• Justin Martyr
…wrote of a future Second Coming. - https://alwaysbeready.com/preterism-examined-and-refuted/
1. Do you believe that Israel and the church are different bodies, even though the Bible teaches that they are the same body
Obviously Paul did, as in
What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded (Romans 11:7)
For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: (Romans 11:25-26)
As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers’ sakes. (Romans 11:28)Why do you disagree with Scripture?
2. If the church age is only a parenthesis, why do so many passages teach that Jesus reigns from heaven as King of Kings now
Because the two are not on conflict. Jesus reigns from heaven as King of Kings now but the final judgment has not taken place, after which,
Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him. (1 Corinthians 15:24-27)
C.
1. Doesn’t the New Testament explain that while the physical temple was about to be destroyed (Matthew 24:2; 34),
Yup, as it was before, yet once again there is no conflict with a future temple being built (if literal).
2. If there is to be a re-built temple with animal sacrifices and rituals, wouldn’t that be denigrating to Christ’s ONCE-FOR-ALL sacrifice? (Hebrews 10:10)
Nope, for aside from unregenerate Jews acting as they did before 70AD, a future temple - of which Ezekiel writes so extensively in detail, defying fulfillment yet - will be in memorial, not atonement any more than believers in their "temple" offering their body as sacrifice is. (Rm. 12:2)
3. Dispensationalists think that Ezekiel’s temple (Ezekiel 44-48) is literal, but also say that bloody sacrifices in the rebuilt temple will be only a memorial. However, Ezekiel’s vision refers to these sacrifices as literally making atonement (Ezekiel 45:15, 17, 20). How is it that the dispensational position is not Contradictory?
Which "proves" more than you want, for it means that the church today, being the 70AD fulfillment of the above, must be literally making atonement. How is the church continually doing so today??? How is it that the preterist position is not Contradictory?
Instead, the sacrifices in Ezekiel’s temple made by Jews can be typological as were those prior to Christ's atonement, but instead of looking forward these are ritually looking back to that of Christ, who is reigning in Ezekiel as concomitant with the temple. God forgave the sins of those of penitent faith prior to the institution of the sacrificial system in recognizance of what Christ would provide, and now forgives under faith looking back to that, and the ritual repetition by Jews under the Lord Christ is expressing love in obeying Christ who reigns over all and under whom they demonstrate faithfulness under His government who enables them to demonstrate they can.
4. Can you find a single verse in the New Testament that says anything about the need for a re-built temple?
No: Can you find a single verse in the New Testament that says anything about there no more goodly fruits, the voice of harpers, and musicians, and of pipers, and trumpeters and sound of craftsman (Rev. 18) in Jerusalem that has been fulfilled?
5. Why does Scripture say God does not dwell in temples made by hands anymore? (Acts 7:48; 17:24)
You are reading "anymore" into the texts, which simply attests that God does not literally dwell in temples made with hands, who cannot be consigned to a spatial location of man. Yet the term "dwell" has different senses (as with "saw" God) and God's presence can be so manifest in His chosen place of communion that man cannot stand in that location, "So that the priests could not stand to minister because of the cloud: for the glory of the Lord had filled the house of the Lord." (1 Kings 8:11)
6. If we are in the New Covenant era, which Scripture says is FOREVER (Hebrews 13:20; Revelation 14:6),
Once again you are reading into the text what it does not actually say, for as with the "everlasting gospel" "Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters" (Revelation 14:7) which applies to all people at all times, "the blood of the everlasting covenant" (Hebrews 13:20) also transcends all time from the Fall of Adam to the Heavenly Jerusalem that comes down from Heaven after the Lord's literal 1,000 year reign - which you can only imagine is now taking place on earth, with the devil being bound.
And refers to redemption by the atonement of Christ and the resultant obedience of faith as response, and not the means of salvation, as always being the means of redemption, which the Law was purposed to bring about, showing man His need for salvation by blood, and with that of animals foreshadowing that of the incarnated Son of God.
Thus it is said to be the everlasting covenant which is essence is by faith in the "everlasting gospel" that of by effectual penitent, heart-purifying, regenerating faith in the Divine Son of God (http://peacebyjesus.net/deityofchrist.html) and Lord of all, (Acts 10:43-47; 15:7-9) sent be the Father to be the Savior of the world, (1 Jn. 4:14) who saves sinners by His sinless shed blood. And which faith is imputed for righteousness, (Romans 4:5) and is shown in baptism and following the Lord, (Acts 2:38-47; Jn. 10:27, 28) whom they shall go to be with or His return (Phil 1:23; 2Cor. 5:8 [“we”]; Heb, 12:22,23; 1Cor. 15:51ff'; 1Thess. 4:17) In contrast to those who were never born of the Spirit or who terminally fall away. (Gal. 5:1-4; Heb. 3:12; 10:25-39) Glory and thanks be to God.
why would God go back to a temple system of the Old Covenant which Paul called bondage (Galatians 4)?
Because you are ignoring context, "Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?" (Galatians 3:3) "Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years. I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed upon you labour in vain." (Galatians 4:10-11)
Which is addressing those under the New Covenant and referring to being under the law in seeking salvation by perfect obedience to its terms, and which applies to any system of salvation on the basis of actual merit, but it is not condemning literally keeping aspects of it that where not typological, nor voluntarily engaging in Jewish rituals in a memorial sense, as Paul could, and ritual in a memorial sense is what we do in the Lord's supper.
Dispensationalists believe in a 1st second coming. Shameful actually.
Just wait ‘til the Mormons show up.
They are stuck ‘believing’ that Jesus has already shown up multiple times!
https://rsc.byu.edu/jerusalem-zarahemla/when-did-jesus-visit-americas
Just what this circus needs: more clowns.
Where is the 3rd temple being built umm.
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Red heifers from Texas await at Shiloh. All 12 stones required for the priest’s breastplate have been found in Israel. The architectural designs are ready to be implemented. An alter has been built on the Mount of Olives in anticipation of the red heifer sacrifice.
The current war in Gaza is actually a war for the Temple Mount. It’s just a matter of time before construction of the third temple begins. It is inevitable.
Passover begins today at sundown, Monday, April 22 (Erev Pesach); Shalom.
Even them will I bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar; for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for all people. Isaiah 56:7
How many times did Joseph Smith correct the Bible? I asked a young Mormon guy once, since he thinks the Bible is the word of God, in so far as it is correctly translated, I asked where is it incorrectly translated? He looked like a deer 🦌 in the headlights. He had no idea what to say.
There must be a photo of the alter altar that has been “built on the Mount of Olives”. Got a link handy?
It’s past sundown in Jerusalem.
There must be a photo of the alter altar that has been “built on the Mount of Olives”. Got a link handy?
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According to CBS News, a “massive altar” has already been constructed. [1]
Apparently, the CBS “report” contained an image of a model of the altar. The real altar must be made of stone. My bad. Glenn Back discussed the red heifer controversy last month. I should have researched more carefully.
It’s past sundown in Jerusalem.
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Passover begins, a precursor to the true Lamb of God, Jesus Christ, whose blood washes away the sins of all who believe. The Transfiguration on the Mount of Olives was the only time Jesus revealed his deity before the Resurrection. Everything else was by faith. Without faith it is impossible to please God. Behold, mercy triumphs over judgment.
Darned AI autocorrect. Belay May last, Glenn Beck, not Glenn Back.
We apologise for the fault in the subtitles. Those responsible have been sacked. Mynd you, møøse bites Kan be pretti nasti...
A better title would be "Questions in which I have misapplied/misunderstood Scripture."
Better yet, how many times was the BoM corrected?
https://globalevangelism.online/book-of-mormon-changes/
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