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French told to shrug off Gallic myth
The Times (U.K.) ^ | 04/01/2002 | Adam Sage

Posted on 03/31/2002 3:17:14 PM PST by Pokey78

THE French identity is based on an historical nonsense, according to an academic who says that the Gauls were a fiction invented by the Romans and exploited by French revolutionaries after 1789.

Christian Goudineau, Professor of History at the respected Collège de France, says in a new book, Par Toutatis, that the Gallic people never existed and that contemporary symbols are figments of the popular imagination.

Take, for example, the cock that always accompanies French rugby supporters to Twickenham. M Goudineau claims that the bird is not the Gallic emblem that France believes it to be. In fact, it was an insult thrown at Philippe Auguste, the 12th-century French King, by English scholars who wanted to ridicule him by comparing him to a rooster.

According to the book, which debunks the myth that the French are descended from the happy-go-lucky people embodied by Asterix, it was the Romans who did most to falsify French history. The professor, considered to be one of the country’s most eminent historians, says that when the Romans marched into what is today called France they encountered a disparate array of peoples.

It was Julius Caesar who gave the name of Gaul to the territories he had conquered, drawing an arbitrary boundary between France and Germany. In their quest for glory, the Romans depicted their enemies as warlike, courageous and uncontrollable, an image that retains its force in France today. Yet many, according to M Goudineau, had done deals with Caesar and put up little or no fight.

His book, named after the Celtic god Toutatis, is significant because it attacks the legend that forms the basis of the modern French state. Schoolbooks, for instance, peddled the idea that France was a single geographical and cultural entity. They also perpetuated the widely held belief that the French character derived from two sources: the undisciplined but likeable Gauls and the rational, centralised administration imposed on them by the Romans.

Such ideas are false, M Goudineau says, yet they permeate all levels of French society. President Chirac, for example, had accumulated failure upon failure during his term of office, but remained popular because his roots were seen to be deep in the Gallic myth: a healthy appetite for food, alcohol and women, a strong sense of humour and an ability to resist in adversity.

Until Caesar, Gaul had been a term used to describe most of continental Europe, from the Atlantic coast to Hungary, according to M Goudineau. Caesar’s version gained credence after the French Revolution, when the country’s leaders sought to unite a nation that had lost the cementing factor of royalty.

M Goudineau says that, despite the academic accuracy of his research, his compatriots are unlikely to abandon a myth driven by two centuries of propaganda. He points, for instance, to the untainted halo that hangs over Vercingetorix, the warrior who led a revolt against Caesar in 52BC. To the French, Vercingetorix is a founding father who placed himself at the head of a Gallic army.

M Goudineau says that he was the leader of the Arvernes, who were one among a “mosaic of peoples” in what is now France.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: godsgravesglyphs
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To: hinckley buzzard
Gallia est omnis divisa in partes tres, quarum unam incolunt Belgae, aliam Aquitani, tertiam qui ipsorum lingua Celtae, nostra Galli appellantur. hi omnes lingua, institutis, legibus inter se differunt.

--Julius Caesar, Bellum Gallicum1.1.1

The whole of Gaul is divided into three parts, one of which the Belgae inhabit, the Aquitani another, and the third a people who in their own language are called "Celts," but in ours, "Gauls." They all differ among themselves in respect of language, way of life, and laws. (Translated by Carolyn Hammond, Oxford World's Classics)

The Latin word for "a Gaul" was "Gallus," but the word "gallus" also meant rooster.

21 posted on 03/31/2002 4:29:04 PM PST by Verginius Rufus
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To: Vercingetorix
ping
22 posted on 03/31/2002 4:44:49 PM PST by Ahban
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To: Pokey78
To me, "By Toutatis!" is only what Asterix and Obelix yell when it's clobberin' time.
23 posted on 03/31/2002 4:45:25 PM PST by Moonmad27
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To: Pokey78
RE:warlike, courageous and uncontrollable,
 
...who had as many words for "surrender" as eskimos have for "snow"
24 posted on 03/31/2002 5:15:57 PM PST by tomakaze
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To: Pokey78
There was no such thing as "France" until the Franks came to dominate Western Europe. Ancient Gaul wasn't French yet.
25 posted on 03/31/2002 5:17:58 PM PST by ValenB4
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To: Verginius Rufus
Right on. So what purpose would M Goudineau have in re-writing, or emphasising different parts of his nations history? "Ca prends un village....."
26 posted on 03/31/2002 5:20:17 PM PST by Jason Kauppinen
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To: bigcheese
Your story is full of holes.
27 posted on 03/31/2002 5:22:17 PM PST by metesky
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To: Pokey78
Goudineau is quite right in his book debunking the Gallic myth. Interesting to see his claim that most Gauls capitulated without much of a fight as in that excellent comic book series, Asterix's village was the only one which apparently put up a fight while the rest of the villages had caved in to the Romans. Until the Romans came and brought civilization followed by Christianity, France and the British Isles mostly resembled uncivilized mosaics of people just as Africa is now. It took a few hundred years of interbreeding of the aboriginals (original purebred sons and daughters of the soil) with invaders to break the mold and Christianity to give them a soul and aspiration to civilization.
28 posted on 03/31/2002 5:35:32 PM PST by TransOxus
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To: Verginius Rufus
Of all the gall; just divide 'em into three unequal parts, the greatest of which, (butt-end),to be called the Belgae.(I studied Latin long ago and it shows).
29 posted on 03/31/2002 5:36:57 PM PST by mathurine
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To: TransOxus
The Romans did little "interbreeding" with the folk of the British Isles, and none with the Picts, Scot's, or Irish. Of course, these peoples were certainly influenced by Rome, primarily by Christianity (though Romans did not directly introduce it to the Celts save the native British), but your story is a bit over-dramatic.
30 posted on 03/31/2002 5:43:53 PM PST by Cleburne
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To: Pokey78
I'm not quite sure what to make of this. They contrasted dramatically in customs with the Germans who lived just across the Rhine.

As for their caving in, just like their descendants in WWII:

1. The French fought a great many wars (probably hundreds) over the last thousand years or so. Of those wars, they were ignominiously defeated in exactly one. They didn't always win, but they always fought bravely. Not a bad record, overall.

2. Caesar, perhaps the greatest military mind leading the most perfectly adapted military machine in history, took eight years (I think) to conquer the Gauls. Of the six million Gauls, at the end of the war perhaps 2,000,000 were dead and another million had been sold into slavery.

So much for ignominious surrender. They were defeated by superior technology and (especially) discipline. Nobody, especially the Romans, ever claimed they weren't brave.

31 posted on 03/31/2002 5:58:55 PM PST by Restorer
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To: Restorer
Please insert the following after the first sentence of the above post. I have no idea why it didn't go thru.

Caesar is very clear that Gaul was not a united nation, but had a multitude of separate, frequently warring tribes. They all spoke related languages and were at least as much a "nation" as were the Greeks of the same era, who thought of themselves as a single people even though they had many separate governments.

32 posted on 03/31/2002 6:02:01 PM PST by Restorer
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To: RightOnline
I agree with you, Right On. J'aime les francaises. --Sauvage la Bete
33 posted on 03/31/2002 6:08:19 PM PST by Savage Beast
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To: Jason Kauppinen
LOL
34 posted on 03/31/2002 6:13:40 PM PST by Savage Beast
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To: Restorer
The French Resistance during the Nazi occupation was certainly brave!
35 posted on 03/31/2002 6:18:04 PM PST by Savage Beast
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What I can't figure out is why the Vercingetorix statue is so similar to the Hermansdenkmal.
36 posted on 03/31/2002 6:23:11 PM PST by cornelis
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To: Restorer
1. The French fought a great many wars (probably hundreds) over the last thousand years or so. Of those wars, they were ignominiously defeated in exactly one.

Would that be the Franco-Prussian war, or WWII?

37 posted on 03/31/2002 6:38:54 PM PST by lepton
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To: lepton
Would that be the Franco-Prussian war, or WWII?

I don't think you can fairly call the French performance in the Franco-Prussian War ignominious. Their armies were surrounded and captured due to the incompetence of Napoleon III and his generals. But they raised new armies and fought on bravely for many months, despite the fact that all their professional trained soldiers were captive in enemy hands.

Those who fight bravely but are defeated have nothing to be ashamed of.

Now WWII was an ignominiious defeat, but it is also fair to point out that Britain would have been defeated equally as ignominiously if not for about 12 miles of seawater.

38 posted on 03/31/2002 6:50:14 PM PST by Restorer
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To: Restorer
It's all simply a hit on Chirac.
Multiculturalism, french fried.
39 posted on 03/31/2002 7:01:04 PM PST by nicollo
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To: RightOnline
What the hell..........I'll cut 'em some slack. They may have engaged in backsliding since, but right after 9/11 the French united in backing our country. I may have my gripes with them, but I'll never forget that show of support and solidarity.

Yeah, right. Then on 9/12 they started critizing American policies. F**k the French.

40 posted on 03/31/2002 7:11:13 PM PST by bfree
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