French told to shrug off Gallic myth

The Times (U.K.) ^ | 04/01/2002 | Adam Sage

[Verginius Rufus]

Gallia est omnis divisa in partes tres, quarum unam incolunt Belgae, aliam Aquitani, tertiam qui ipsorum lingua Celtae, nostra Galli appellantur. hi omnes lingua, institutis, legibus inter se differunt.

--Julius Caesar, Bellum Gallicum1.1.1

The whole of Gaul is divided into three parts, one of which the Belgae inhabit, the Aquitani another, and the third a people who in their own language are called "Celts," but in ours, "Gauls." They all differ among themselves in respect of language, way of life, and laws. (Translated by Carolyn Hammond, Oxford World's Classics)

The Latin word for "a Gaul" was "Gallus," but the word "gallus" also meant rooster.

[Ahban]

ping

[Moonmad27]

To me, "By Toutatis!" is only what Asterix and Obelix yell when it's clobberin' time.

[tomakaze]

RE:warlike, courageous and uncontrollable,
 
...who had as many words for "surrender" as eskimos have for "snow"

[ValenB4]

There was no such thing as "France" until the Franks came to dominate Western Europe. Ancient Gaul wasn't French yet.

[Jason Kauppinen]

Right on. So what purpose would M Goudineau have in re-writing, or emphasising different parts of his nations history? "Ca prends un village....."

[metesky]

Your story is full of holes.

[TransOxus]

Goudineau is quite right in his book debunking the Gallic myth. Interesting to see his claim that most Gauls capitulated without much of a fight as in that excellent comic book series, Asterix's village was the only one which apparently put up a fight while the rest of the villages had caved in to the Romans. Until the Romans came and brought civilization followed by Christianity, France and the British Isles mostly resembled uncivilized mosaics of people just as Africa is now. It took a few hundred years of interbreeding of the aboriginals (original purebred sons and daughters of the soil) with invaders to break the mold and Christianity to give them a soul and aspiration to civilization.

[mathurine]

Of all the gall; just divide 'em into three unequal parts, the greatest of which, (butt-end),to be called the Belgae.(I studied Latin long ago and it shows).

[Cleburne]

The Romans did little "interbreeding" with the folk of the British Isles, and none with the Picts, Scot's, or Irish. Of course, these peoples were certainly influenced by Rome, primarily by Christianity (though Romans did not directly introduce it to the Celts save the native British), but your story is a bit over-dramatic.

[Restorer]

I'm not quite sure what to make of this. They contrasted dramatically in customs with the Germans who lived just across the Rhine.

As for their caving in, just like their descendants in WWII:

1. The French fought a great many wars (probably hundreds) over the last thousand years or so. Of those wars, they were ignominiously defeated in exactly one. They didn't always win, but they always fought bravely. Not a bad record, overall.

2. Caesar, perhaps the greatest military mind leading the most perfectly adapted military machine in history, took eight years (I think) to conquer the Gauls. Of the six million Gauls, at the end of the war perhaps 2,000,000 were dead and another million had been sold into slavery.

So much for ignominious surrender. They were defeated by superior technology and (especially) discipline. Nobody, especially the Romans, ever claimed they weren't brave.

[Restorer]

Please insert the following after the first sentence of the above post. I have no idea why it didn't go thru.

Caesar is very clear that Gaul was not a united nation, but had a multitude of separate, frequently warring tribes. They all spoke related languages and were at least as much a "nation" as were the Greeks of the same era, who thought of themselves as a single people even though they had many separate governments.

[Savage Beast]

I agree with you, Right On. J'aime les francaises. --Sauvage la Bete

[Savage Beast]

LOL

[Savage Beast]

The French Resistance during the Nazi occupation was certainly brave!

[cornelis]

What I can't figure out is why the Vercingetorix statue is so similar to the Hermansdenkmal.

[lepton]

1. The French fought a great many wars (probably hundreds) over the last thousand years or so. Of those wars, they were ignominiously defeated in exactly one.

Would that be the Franco-Prussian war, or WWII?

[Restorer]

Would that be the Franco-Prussian war, or WWII?

I don't think you can fairly call the French performance in the Franco-Prussian War ignominious. Their armies were surrounded and captured due to the incompetence of Napoleon III and his generals. But they raised new armies and fought on bravely for many months, despite the fact that all their professional trained soldiers were captive in enemy hands.

Those who fight bravely but are defeated have nothing to be ashamed of.

Now WWII was an ignominiious defeat, but it is also fair to point out that Britain would have been defeated equally as ignominiously if not for about 12 miles of seawater.

[nicollo]

It's all simply a hit on Chirac.
Multiculturalism, french fried.

[bfree]

What the hell..........I'll cut 'em some slack. They may have engaged in backsliding since, but right after 9/11 the French united in backing our country. I may have my gripes with them, but I'll never forget that show of support and solidarity.

Yeah, right. Then on 9/12 they started critizing American policies. F**k the French.