Posted on 04/26/2002 9:35:29 AM PDT by SJackson
Friday afternoon, Soheila Hoshi, 47, a mother of four children ages nine to eighteen, completed her weekly shopping at Jerusalems colorful outdoor market known as Machane Yehuda. She was a regular at the market, picking up last minute fruits, vegetables and goodies for the family meal.
As Soheila waited for the bus, a young Palestinian who fancied herself a martyr positioned her body deep in the throng of people walking and waiting on the sidewalk and detonated a belt of explosives strapped to her waist. In blowing herself up and unleashing a combination of nails, screws and explosives that get more sophisticated with each passing attack, she also permanently tore apart six innocent shoppers and injured scores more. Soheila, who was standing close to the bomber, was so disfigured that the forensic specialists could not make a positive identification of her body until after the Jewish Sabbath, which ended at sundown the following day, using blood samples from family members.
Soheila is my husbands first cousin. She left Iran as a young woman for Israel to fulfill a dream of living as a Jew in Israel. She immigrated alone, leaving behind parents who to this day, amazingly, still live in Iran. Soheila went on to marry and have four children. At some point after meeting my husband, I first heard her name in connection with another horror: cancer. This woman, then in her early 40s, was very sick and no one knew if she would live. Miraculously, though, she managed to lick that enemy into remission. This always-cheerful religious woman was not so lucky on Friday.
In a way, though, the details are not so important. For if she had woken up 20 minutes earlier on Friday morning or lingered at one more fruit stand in the market, this woman may well have been spared and another blown to bits in her place. Soheila was just one of tens, hundreds, thousands, who have been murdered over the past 19 months, and before that over the past nine years, and before that in 1973, 1967 and 1947 when war-loving neighbors on all sides attacked Israel. Before that, just 60 years ago, there were six million Soheilas murdered in Europe the same civilized place whose people were the first and thus far the most efficient in condemning Israel over the past few weeks.
Make no mistake about it, since September 28, 2000, over 450 innocent men, women, children and unborn babies (the population equivalent of some 23,000 or so Americans) have been killed by bombers and shooters for one reason: Because they were Jewish (Although, not all of the victims have been Jewish or Israeli. Fridays bombing in Jerusalem took the life of two Chinese workers who were likely in Israel to earn some money to send to their families at home). Arafat and his henchman are not looking only to end what they call the occupation or to drive the Israeli Defense Forces out of the areas that they controlled autonomously following agreements known by names like Oslo. This isnt about Muslims wanting to live in a neighborhood where Jews live. No, that would be too simple. This is not an uprising or a simple intifada as the news networks so neatly categorize it. Behind the violence against Israelis is a desire, one that has not been hidden or even blurred, to rid the Middle East and the country known as Israel a name that to my knowledge is not even acknowledged or uttered in the streets of Jenin or Ramallah or Tulkarem of its Jewish presence. In Nazi times it was known as Judenrein, or free from Jews; today, its called jihad or holy war, and it just isnt any different.
Why should any American care about any of this, especially if they didnt know Soheila, or if theyre not Jewish or if they dont consider themselves a supporter of Israel? Because the moment Americans hesitate before going to a mall or their childrens birthday parties or the local pizza place, the moment these hideous excuses for freedom fighters infiltrate nice, free, quiet lives and blow themselves up on Main Street, USA and they will - the moment Americans see the wreckage of body parts, groceries that will never make it to the table and abandoned cell phones that ring incessantly because their owners were just blown apart at our bus stops and meeting places, then this will become something that we will want to destroy and eradicate without nuance and without delay. Maybe then we will thank the Israelis for doing much of the worlds dirty work, the job that not one other nation in the world including the United States has yet dared to undertake. Maybe then, and only then, we will pay honor and respect to the memory of Soheila and all the others in the only way befitting these innocent souls who are no more.
There's no reason to think that. They agreed to ammend the charter in 93, and have never so much as made an attempt.
Ever read their "phased plan" adopted in 1974 (lots of sources, on here: http://www.netaxs.com/~iris/plophase.htm). In brief:
1-Through the "armed struggle" (i.e., terrorism), to establish an "independent combatant national authority" over any territory that is "liberated" from Israeli rule. (Article 2)
2-To continue the struggle against Israel, using the territory of the national authority as a base of operations. (Article 4)
3-To provoke an all-out war in which Israel's Arab neighbors destroy it entirely ("liberate all Palestinian territory"). (Article 8)
They've never revoked this either. IMO, they think they're near the end of 1, establishing an "independent combatant national authority", in which they can consolidate Arab strength (sheltered by UN peacekeepers?) per step 2.
I'm not sure the U.S. should yet be included - even though the Arabs see it that way.
Think of the world media as the O.J. jury.
Can't do that. The media may be providing incorrect and/or incomplete information but they can not make a final decision. The O.J. jury clearly made a final (and incorrect) decision.
They agreed to give back 95 % of the pre-67 land back and the other 5 % they offered to substitute Israeli land in the Gallillee (total about 100%)
So instead of accepting that deal, or countering it with something close or anything whatsoever, Arafat stormed out and chose to have teenagers sneak in and blow themselves and innocent children and other civilians to pieces (close to 500 victims)
You are wrong, BTW. It has no logic associated with it. Just hate. Sometimes one side is more wrong (a lot more wrong) than the other.. Duh!
All I can add is that the while the jihadists have no real understanding of the west, their bluster about putting infidels to the sword tells us a lot about what they fear and respect.
They can be kept at bay by a superior civilization that is willing to speak to them in their own language of armed force.
The IDF can and will wage war on the mullah motivated murdering muslim maniacs. This sociopathic Islamic culture which praises this "teen suicide mass murder" should be driven to cultural suicide as was demonstrated in "downtown" Jenin, a proper 21st Century urban renewal.
Live by the bomb. Die by the bomb. The Arab's coveted Middle East is on the way to becoming a dusty scab. Pan-Islamists are at war and they shall have it.
Ask Yasser Arafat.
There could be a strong case made that the U.S. is a "war-loving" nation (we usually win and just look at most of our war movies).
Oh please! Usually we get remarks like this on or approaching the anniversary of Hiroshima. America is evil, blah, blah. Unjustified use of force, blah, blah. Warmongering imperialists, blah, blah. Ad infinitum. Ad nauseum.
The truth of the matter is America has stood against the forces of evil in the world since day one. Yes, including Vietnam. If you don't think so, talk to any of the Vietnamese boat people who escaped the Communist "re-education" camps.
You want to see a war-loving culture, look to Europe, Asia and the Middle East, not to mention numerous South American despots. All this talk of war-loving America is just fodder for the hate-America crowd.
Also, we have the most effective and massive war machine in the history of civilization - we are the war leader of mankind; the world is trying to follow our example.
If that's the case it was because we needed it. Just ask Neville Chamberlain how effective his "Peace In Our Time" deal with Hitler turned out in Munich in 1938.
And if the world is trying to follow our example, you can thank your lucky stars that even if they do perfect the technique, we still have the power to blow them off the map.
A lot has happened since 1974 (if I believed everything the U.S. government said 1974, I would be very unhappy now - which is the case).
Step 3 - To provoke an all-out war in which Israel's Arab neighbors destroy it entirely..
We are getting close to the all-out war part - which will result in major world upheaval no matter who "wins". Israel seems to be co-operating with this plan quite well.
See, we do agree. I don't want to convince you of those things. What is important is how people relate to each other - not the letter of any particular human religion. What is important is the truth - not propaganda from whatever source.
It is also important to try to understand how and why different people think the way they do. It is hard to love your neighbor if you make no effort to understand them and assume the worse. We are all children of the same Source even though we may use different terms to describe that Source and even though we may understand that Source differently. If we hate our neighbor, we hate our Source and therefore ourselves.
Modern, modernizing, hopelessly stone aged, welfare culture on the verge of major Ireland-type renaissance, scrappy and modern.
How do you rate the Muslim-Americans?
For the most part, modern having left the nomad mentality behind for the New World.
Have they any positive impact on our culture?
Muslims in the historical sense? In the arts and sciences - Yes. Muslim Americans in the contemporary sense? Yes. Contemporary Islam? No. It's a net loss - an anchor on the rest of the world - a goat powered cart on a busy freeway whose driver stubbornly insists, not only upon nestoring in the fast lane, but upon going the wrong way and charging into oncoming cars to kill the passengers along with themselves.
Isn't our culture somewhat unique since it is comprised of elements of all the world's cultures?
Yes. And Israel to a lesser extent (a conglomeration of ex-Germans and Russians, Americans, Semites, Ethiopians and Christians of all colors/national origins...) Unfortunately, the arab world is turning even more xenophobic.
"Since the decision of the Palestinian National Council at its 12th meeting in 1974, the PLO has adopted the political solution of establishing a National Authority over any territory from which the occupation withdraws."
- Yassir Arafat, in the Palestinian Arab newspaper Al Ayyam, January 1, 1998
"Within five years we will have 6 to 7 million Arabs living on the West Bank and in Jerusalem....We plan to eliminate the state of Israel and establish a Palestinian state. We will make life unbearable for Jews by psychological warfare and population explosion. Jews will not want to live among Arabs. I have no use for Jews....We Palestinians will take over everything, including all of Jerusalem."
Yassir Arafat, Stockholm, 30 January, 1996, as reported by an attendee of the closed meeting, and printed in the Washington Times, March 3, 1996, by Cal Thomas
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- "The Oslo accord was a preface for the Palestinian Authority and the Palestinian Authority will be a preface for the Palestinian state which, in its turn, will be a preface for the liberation of the entire Palestinian land." (Emphasis added.)
· Abdul Asis Shaheen, Arafat's Minister of Supplies in the official Palestinian Authority newspaper Al-Hayat Al-Jadida on 4 January 1998
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Question: Do you feel sometimes that you made a mistake in agreeing to Oslo?
Arafat: No... no. Allah's messenger Mohammad accepted the al-Khudaibiya peace treaty and Salah a-Din accepted the peace agreement with Richard the Lion-Hearted."
cited in Al-Quds, May 10, 1998
You have grasped the obvious. How will that be done? How can we love both the Jews and the Arabs? How can the Jews love the Arabs and vice verse?
Mr. Semper,
When I read your 1st post in this thread, I clicked on your profile fully expecting to find a "disruptor" who has just joined FR. I must say I was shocked to find a long time member of the armed forces.
I am happy to provide some facts or at least puzzles for you to figure out.
Myth: The Palestinians were promised certain land
Yes, and that land is now called Jordan. In fact, originally, in the Balfour declaration, it was the JEWS who were promised that land. But due to the Arab rage over the proposal, the Jewish land was divided in two, then divided in two again... so only 18% of that original "promised land" was actually awarded to Israel. Then, in 1967, when Israel was attacked by the "war loving neighbors", they got their butts kicked and in the process, Israel took over that "west bank", which was at that time Jordan. According to international law, Israel has the right to that land until a negotiated peace is signed with JORDAN! Well, JORDAN does not want that land back, a fact that is conveniently burried by the media. HOW IN THE WORLD does this situation give legitimacy to a terrorist trying to set up his own fiefdom??? Where are Arafat's claims?
Myth: The PLO is fighting for the land
Fact: Israel took over the West Bank in 1967. PLO was established in 1964. Two things to notice: From 1964 to 1967, there was not struggle for liberation, even though the land was "occupied" by Jordan. Also, the credo of the PLO is the destruction of Israel, 3 years BEFORE it occupied the West bank.
I hope you will reflect on these items.
Regards
However, history (viz., Chamberlain and Joe Kennedy) does teach that trying to pacify haters only breeds more hatred and violence. Faced with that reality and the fear that the Arafats of the world will not stop with victory in the Middle East, I am forced to conclude that we must back Israel at all costs and allow it to beat the so-called Palestinians into submission.
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