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It's Ashcroft-Metzenbaum vs. NRA
The Plain Dealer - Cleaveland.com ^ | 04/20/2002 | Bill Sloat

Posted on 04/30/2002 12:11:21 AM PDT by Mini-14

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To: Rowdee
Don't you realize the liberals would have an absolute field day excoriating him for a half-assed effort?

Oh, but I _DO_ realize that. I fully expect him to present a full-assed case - I just expect him to void and wipe before presenting the case, unlike AWB supporters.

Ashcroft MUST present the best legitimate legal case he can, and must cover all the arguments that Metzenbaum (sp?) & Co. would present, else they will scream that he short-changed the case. HOWEVER, if he presents that side's arguments CLEARLY, as based in law, the pro-AWB case cannot stand and will be shown ludicrous. This is in contrast to having a real anti-RKBA believer stand and fling obfuscating rationalizations which, while rebuttable, cannot be analyzed and vanquished in the time allotted.

Remember: we're in this AWB mess because the opposition succesfully spread fear, uncertainty, and doubt, while we spent the whole time trying to clean up the mess they were making. Reno (or the like) would just continue the FUD in the courtroom with a remarkable chance of success; Ashcroft cannot/willnot make a FUD defense, and is limited to plainly showing the legal house of cards making up the AWB.

41 posted on 05/01/2002 10:15:06 AM PDT by ctdonath2
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To: Blood of Tyrants
The AW ban wil not be allowed to expire. Not now, not ever.

It will be kept alive by administrative fiat.

42 posted on 05/01/2002 10:15:14 AM PDT by El Sordo
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To: Lumberjack
See #40 for the synopsis.
43 posted on 05/01/2002 10:33:32 AM PDT by Travis McGee
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To: El Sordo
Or vastly deepened and strengthened if there is a major terrorist attack useing "assualt rifles". See #40.
44 posted on 05/01/2002 10:34:56 AM PDT by Travis McGee
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To: Squantos
From a tactical political standpoint it does make sense but the risk is in alienating the RKBA base of support. It is a delicate dance and arguing that the danger to the public is proven could well be a losing tactic as some evidence of taht argument may wind up having to be presented. A whole lot depends on how good teh lawyers for the RKBA really are and the judges hearing the case.

Stay wel - Stay safe - Stay armed - Yorktown

45 posted on 05/01/2002 10:39:25 AM PDT by harpseal
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To: ctdonath2
I hope you are right, I really do. You mentioned "anti-AWB scrutiny". Who will provide this scrutiny and how do you expect it to be disseminated? I wouldn't expect the media to be on the right side. I don't doubt that Ashcroft is a good man, but, as someone else said, he is a team member and has to tow the party line. I don't see the Feds giving up this power. Again, I hope you're right.
46 posted on 05/01/2002 10:44:29 AM PDT by 7.63Broom
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To: 7.63Broom
You mentioned "anti-AWB scrutiny". Who will provide this scrutiny and how do you expect it to be disseminated?

The plaintiffs in this court case. Further dissemination is irrelevant at this level.

I don't see the Feds giving up this power.

I don't see the current Feds keeping this power regardless. This administration is incapable of producing the kind of FUD (fear, uncertainty, doubt) via rabid obfuscations necessary to fight the legal facts involved in this case.

47 posted on 05/01/2002 11:13:02 AM PDT by ctdonath2
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To: Mini-14
Hate to point this out, but this was "news" 10 days ago, and was liberally covered on FR at that time.
48 posted on 05/01/2002 11:27:12 AM PDT by Redbob
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To: ctdonath2
The plaintiffs in this court case. Further dissemination is irrelevant at this level.

My question exposed my ignorance. I went back and re-read the article and have a better understanding of the proceedings. I'm going to cross my fingers and hope for the best (ignoring that nagging doubt). Thanks for the polite "education".

49 posted on 05/01/2002 11:29:05 AM PDT by 7.63Broom
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To: Rowdee
Of course, if he had strong convictions, he'd not have taken the job because he would have know issues like this and abortion would be on the burners during his tenure.

Again, I disagree. A man of principal will not run away from an oportunity to do good in other areas, where he may be forced to enforce current laws, even though he disagrees with them.

Mark

50 posted on 05/01/2002 11:33:36 AM PDT by MarkL
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To: Blood of Tyrants; ALL
Why bring this up now? The AW ban will quietly expire in less than 2 1/2 years.

LOL!! Are you insane? It will be even more vocal than the original bill being signed, because GW will re-sign it. Anyone who thinks he wont is out of their minds. The government NEVER gives back something they have stolen. No president will ever let this sunshine. The AW ban just gives them too much power.

51 posted on 05/01/2002 11:34:45 AM PDT by FreeTally
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To: donozark
Don't believe I have EVER read this much hog-swallow on one thread in all my FR life.

A).Ashcroft took an oath as AG to uphold the law-ALL laws. Like it or not. Guess many here aren't use to having an AG that doesn't pick and choose the laws he/she wants to enforce. So unlike Janet Sterno.

B).Ashcroft first AG to interpret the Second Amendment as and INDIVIDUAL right as opposed to a COLLECTIVE right in many years. Remember how Corporal Klinton's Solicitor Gen. argued otherwise? Ashcroft has so instructed his 93 Fed. DAs accordingly.

C).Although unrelated to RKBA, when Ashcroft was Gov. of Missouri, our state was ranked 48th in TOTAL tax burden. After 3 years of Carnahan and the Democrats, we rose to EIGHTEENTH! Right up there with Kali, Mass, NY,etc.

D)As for NRA? They are already confronting pols on their views of letting the AW Ban "sunset." Posted on nraila.org or gomemphis.com as well as most of the gun boards.

If you long for the days of Rambo Reno? I'll see you on the beach...

52 posted on 05/01/2002 11:48:32 AM PDT by donozark
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To: infowars
ROTFLMAO!!!

Looks like the NRA frauds are getting what they asked for --"Enforcing the laws we have". Hope CFR helps.

http://www.gunowners.org

53 posted on 05/01/2002 11:57:05 AM PDT by Scholastic
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To: ChareltonHest
Can't wait to see how Miss Marple spins this!
54 posted on 05/01/2002 12:02:48 PM PDT by Scarlet Pimpernel
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To: MarkL
Yeah right.....with fedgov there is so much that an AG can do right.....

He shoulda stayed in the Senate and done all his 'good works' there.....oh, that's right.....he let a dead man beat him.....I forgot. Oops.....oh well.....hows about he just goes back home and bes a citizen living under all the rules and regs he helped formulate as one of the elites?

55 posted on 05/01/2002 12:08:38 PM PDT by Rowdee
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To: MarkL
re:post 16

Ashcroft also swore an oath to uphold the Constitution, and has publicly stated that he believes in an individual right to KABA. Was he lying then or is he lying now?

Don't forget that Ashcroft is also continuing the prosecution of the Emerson case, with the same clinton appointed attack dogs who originally said that citizens have no "right" whatsoever to keep and bear arms.

They can't use the USvMiller argument here, as "Assault rifles" have demonstrated their usefullness and their intended purpose, the defense of the country.

56 posted on 05/01/2002 12:23:35 PM PDT by wcbtinman
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To: donozark
It would never occur to the armchair generals we have here to work to sunset the AW ban. They're more interested in whining about the latest "fault" of the NRA. Where are the other gun groups on this? Nonexistent? It going to take a least two years to change people's minds about semi-automatic firearms and we can't take the media's spin on what is happening behind the closed doors.

We have to work together to increase our numbers. The NRA should have 8 million members which is ten per cent of the American gunowners. There is no reason why the SAS can't increase their numbers among the women shooter to 2 million. The GOA should have at least half the members of the NRA without trying to gut the NRA to expand.

The AW ban will only sunset if we have the votes to do so. It won't happen if we fight among ourselves.

57 posted on 05/01/2002 12:32:44 PM PDT by Shooter 2.5
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To: Redbob
I performed a search before posting, but couldn't find a duplicate post.
58 posted on 05/01/2002 1:10:36 PM PDT by Mini-14
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To: Travis McGee
"A website called FreeAmerica.Com.."

Will the Moose make a cameo appearance?

59 posted on 05/01/2002 1:42:26 PM PDT by El Sordo
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To: wcbtinman
Emerson under appeal to SCOTUS. Will they decide to hear it?
60 posted on 05/01/2002 1:53:06 PM PDT by donozark
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