Israel Soon to be a 'Christian' Nation?

NewsMax ^ | 6/15/2002 | NewsMax

[Sen Jack S. Fogbound]

Israel Soon to be a 'Christian' Nation?

The Jewish majority in Israel faces a significant demographic threat.

Israel's Minister of the Interior Eli Yeshai said this week that at the current rates of growth, Jews will not be the majority population between the Jordan and the Mediterranean within eight years.

As it stands now, Yeshai noted, there are a growing number of IDF soldiers who refuse to take the oath of allegiance on the Tanakh (Jewish Bible), but rather insist on doing so on the New Testament. Yeshai calls for an "emergency public debate on the matter before it's too late."

In order to limit the number of non-Jews who take advantage of Israeli repatriation laws, Yeshai recommends that the Law of Return be changed.

Under the current law, individuals with one Jewish grandparent may obtain automatic citizenship - even though Judaism recognizes only the offspring of a Jewish mother or a halakhic [Jewish legal] convert as Jewish.

Housing Minister Natan Sharansky, however, says that now is not the time to discuss changing the Law of Return.

After the fall of the Soviet Union, Israel opened its doors to Russian Jews who sought to emigrate. Many did. Of these new immigrants to Israel, many were Christians who claimed a distant ancestor as being Jewish. Still others anxious to leave Russia falsely claimed they were Jewish.

[Bobby777]

gobbledygook ...

[PaulKersey]

(gobbledygook...splitting hairs...technicality) = "Reader not smart enough to understand. Is in way over head. Apply at MacDonalds for management job".

[Bobby777]

you clearly know that his conclusions are false ... where he quotes a premise that's non-Biblical and not supported outside a particular denomination by anyo serious scholar nor supported by any Greek, Hebrew nor Aramaic document, it's grasping at straws to try and prove this ... it's old covenant theology where people try to prove they're Jewish and they're not ... they're Gentiles ...

what exactly is the amazing conclusion you're bringing with Israelites and Jews? First of all you tried to say there were no Jews when Paul wrote Romans, which is absurd and we've already proven that ... but no, refute by attacking the person ...

[Bobby777]

typo ... anyo s/b any

[William Terrell]

. . .where he quotes a premise that's non-Biblical and not supported outside a particular denomination by anyo serious scholar nor supported by any Greek, Hebrew nor Aramaic document, it's grasping at straws to try and prove this. . .

How do explain Hosea 1:10, 11?

[10] Yet the number of the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured nor numbered; and it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people, there it shall be said unto them, Ye are the sons of the living God.

[11] Then shall the children of Judah and the children of Israel be gathered together, and appoint themselves one head, and they shall come up out of the land: for great shall be the day of Jezreel.

[Mare Tranquilitatus]

you clearly know that his conclusions are false ...

Actually, Losttribe makes a good deal of sense.  He's certainly the most creative theologian we have here on FR and I think is offering some exceptionally incisive insights into scripture. No one says you have to accept his thoughts or anyone elses but you should at least have sufficient intellect to examine them and draw conclusions based on something other than knee-jerking.  I don't always agree with everything, but then I concede I don't always know everything either.

where he quotes a premise that's non-Biblical

I don't see this at all.  Most of his premesis appear totally Biblical.  He's just suggesting there is another way to look at some of them.  What do you find so threatening about that?

and not supported outside a particular denomination by anyo serious scholar

That's like saying "I didn't learn that before, and since I already know everything it cannot be true.

nor supported by any Greek, Hebrew nor Aramaic document,

Quite an ignorant statement, IMHO.  Really saying "I haven't seen it before, and since I know everything it can't be right".

 it's grasping at straws to try and prove this

I don't see any grasping at straws.  His arguments seem unusually well reasoned and laid out to me, and without a grasping at straws.

 ... it's old covenant theology where people try to prove they're Jewish and they're not ... they're Gentiles ...

Where does that appear?  I'm afraid your objections come across as a panicky sort of fantasyland.

what exactly is the amazing conclusion you're bringing with Israelites and Jews?

Have you really been reading the posts on this thread, or are you so busy talking you are not listening?  Are you totally dense?

First of all you tried to say there were no Jews when Paul wrote Romans,

Where did he say that? I reviewed the posts and don't see a sign of that anywhere.

 but no, refute by attacking the person ...

Check the mirror.  You are the one attacking the person because you apparently can't follow the argument.  Don't be such a tighta$$ and do more thinking.  You might actually learn something.

[Bobby777]

first of all you need to read back through the threads and you'd see about Romans ... so try again ...

secondly the New Testament clearly shows the Gospel going to the Gentiles after the Jew ... that means there's a difference between Jew and Gentile ... if you don't understand the lesson taught to the Apostle Peter by God regarding this subject then there's no point discussing doctrine along those lines either ...

creative theologian? well, there's your answer right there ... FReegards

[Bobby777]

let me ask you why you ignore the New Testament verses on this subject? ... if the Apostle Paul says there's no difference between Jew and Gentile in Christ, why go to great lengths to make everyone a "Jew"? ... there are Jews by history and Jews more defined by nature (according to New Testament) ... Peter is rebuked by God for placing burdens on Gentiles that the Jews couldn't keep ... why would God Himself address the subject in that manner? ...

[Bobby777]

You are the one attacking the person because you apparently can't follow the argument

puhleeze ... rejecting a nonsensical argument is not inability to "follow the argument" ... usually there is a denomination factor in these discussions that brings in "another book" besides the Bible to prove the point ...

but, I must go work ... so debate amongst yourselves ...

[Mare Tranquilitatus]

first of all you need to read back through the threads and you'd see about Romans ... so try again ...

No, Im not going to play your childish game. If you want to discuss it, then quote it!

secondly the New Testament clearly shows the Gospel going to the Gentiles after the Jew

If you want to discuss it, then quote it!  Exactly! Put your money where your mouth is!

 ... that means there's a difference between Jew and Gentile .

That topic has never been contested but you can't get it off your mind. Do you read anything, or just post?

. if you don't understand the lesson taught to the Apostle Peter by God regarding this subject then there's no point discussing doctrine along those lines either ...

Better hurry along, I heard your Mother calling you.

creative theologian? well, there's your answer right there

You don't even know the meaning of  "creative".  It means "able to see what others have not seen". 

[Sen Jack S. Fogbound]

"So NewsMax misspelled the name "Israel" in title of their email, and you had copied it exactly as it was sent to you? Did you check the headers to make sure it came from who purported to send it?"

I typed in the header to the post. My typo. The headline is actually from the article from the NewsMax.com Insider Report Newsletter.

Sorry about that! Hope you Hall Monitors will be happy now.

Below is the article itself as copied without modification:

1) Israel Soon to be a 'Christian' Nation?

The Jewish majority in Israel faces a significant demographic threat.

Israel's Minister of the Interior Eli Yeshai said this week that at the current rates of growth, Jews will not be the majority population between the Jordan and the Mediterranean within eight years.

As it stands now, Yeshai noted, there are a growing number of IDF soldiers who refuse to take the oath of allegiance on the Tanakh (Jewish Bible), but rather insist on doing so on the New Testament. Yeshai calls for an "emergency public debate on the matter before it's too late."

In order to limit the number of non-Jews who take advantage of Israeli repatriation laws, Yeshai recommends that the Law of Return be changed.

Under the current law, individuals with one Jewish grandparent may obtain automatic citizenship - even though Judaism recognizes only the offspring of a Jewish mother or a halakhic [Jewish legal] convert as Jewish.

Housing Minister Natan Sharansky, however, says that now is not the time to discuss changing the Law of Return.(Arutz-7)

After the fall of the Soviet Union, Israel opened its doors to Russian Jews who sought to emigrate. Many did. Of these new immigrants to Israel, many were Christians who claimed a distant ancestor as being Jewish. Still others anxious to leave Russia falsely claimed they were Jewish.

[Codie]

not according to the prophecies ... the Third Temple, which is coming despite the naysayers, will solidify the Levitical Laws and Deuteronomy's edicts ... only when their Messiah has returned will they recognize Him, nationally, for Who He is ... until that time, some individual conversions, or "completions" as some say, will occur, but Israel will remain strongly Jewish, albeit partitioned it appears, perhaps very soon ...

Will the sacrificial system be reinstated as well, and will God honor it?

[parsifal]

Well one good thing would happen if Israel turned Baptist. Wouldn't be no more of those rascals banging their heads up againt a wall you see every time the news has an Israel story. Baptists don't go in for headbanging. Least not, their own heads. parsy.

[AnnaZ]

IDF soldiers who refuse to take the oath of allegiance on the Tanakh (Jewish Bible), but rather insist on doing so on the New Testament.

If true, those IDF soldiers are not Christians; they are replacement theologians.

---

Something about that bugged me as well. I'm a believer and I would have no problem swearing on any Hebrew scripture.

[biffalobull]

"Who is a Jew?" Is one Jewish by religion or by ancestry?

How about this for an awful mix-up problem.

Poor Sammy Davis Jr. had three strikes against him. He was Jewish, black, and had only one eye.

Regards

[LostTribe]

>Actually, Losttribe makes a good deal of sense.  He's certainly the most creative theologian we
have here on FR and I think is offering some exceptionally incisive insights into scripture ...
 "creative" ... means "able to see what others have not seen".

Thank You, I think!  It certainly is not my intention to be "creative" in any fictional sense, but if I do see some things that others do not, maybe it's just because there is so much uniformity in the field, supported by timidity.  And maybe not enough listening by others to the wee small voices heard only in times of silence and contemplation.

While an undergraduate I had several pre-Sem roommates and friends.  Took most of the same theology courses they did, and saw they were very bright.  Nice guys all, great memorizers and regurgitators who got good grades, but not one was able to think "outside the box" of their Professors and substantial denomination.  All went on to become Clergy and Seminary Professors.  I wouldn't rely on any of them to mow my lawn or sit my dog.

Now quick to retreat behind "well, our church doesn't believe that" and never able to hold a dialogue which goes beyond tossing "bumper sticker" cliches, their heads are up and firmly locked. They simply cannot venture outside the box which is their security blanket. I suppose peer approval and advancement depend on toeing the mark, not to mention a meager pension at some point, but I find it sad they can't open their minds and think on their own. But then, they never really could.

Sadly, the same often seems true here on FR.

[Mamzelle]

How curious that am IDF Christian Israeli would object to using a Jewish Bible to swear an oath. The Jewish Bible is not fulfilled to a Christian, but is certainly honored .

[William Terrell]

You refered to losttribe's info as "gobbledegook" and wrong. So, in light of those remarks, I asked, then how do you explain Hosea 1:10,11? Obviously Judah+parts comes, and can come, nowhere near numerous as sands of the sea. And Israel and Judah are mention as separate entities which will come together. Who is Israel, and since the Jews seem to think the time of Jezreel is near, what shall make up the sands of the sea?

I'm not ignoring any Testament. Hosea 1 is a prophecy of God. Nothing in the New Testament trumps a prophecy of God. Jesus Himself said He came to affirm the prophecies in the Old Testament.

In light of all this, then, how can losttribe's information be gobbledegook, especially since it is founded on historical as well as Biblical references? Possibly you object to the bright colors he enjoys using and are blinded to the content thereof?

[Bobby777]

there's no point in discussing anything with you ... it's obvious ... please don't post to me again ...

[Bobby777]

yes to your first question and no to your second ... the last prophet of the Old Testament makes that clear ... it's the same book in the Bible as well as the Jewish texts ... the references to the sacrifices addresses your question ...