Israel Soon to be a 'Christian' Nation?

NewsMax ^ | 6/15/2002 | NewsMax

[Bobby777]

correct ... but they would not necessarily be a replacement theologian ... it's only those who think the Church replaced Israel who qualify as that ... Romans obviously teaches that the Christian Church is grafted into the inheritance that was first promised to the Jews who would believe in the Messiah ...

[PaulKersey]

Romans obviously teaches that the Christian Church is grafted into the inheritance that was first promised to the Jews who would believe in the Messiah ...

Where does it specifically say an inheritance was first promised to the Jews who would believe in the Messiah???

[Bobby777]

Romans 9, 10, and 11 clearly speak about the branches and the those grafted in ... this context is related to Salvation in Christ ...

[B.R. Burton]

Romans. "First to the Jew, and then to the Gentile."

[B.R. Burton]

Thanks BibChr. I appreciate your stance with the Word of God.

[Bobby777]

Matthew 15:24 But He answered and said, "I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel."

In context Matthew 15:22-27 - shows Gentiles can also receive Salvation in Him

parallel chapter in Mark 7

[Bobby777]

excellent and correct quote from Romans ...

[PaulKersey]

>Where does it specifically say an inheritance was first promised to the Jews who would believe in the Messiah???

>Romans 9, 10, and 11 clearly speak about the branches and the those grafted in ... this context is related to Salvation in Christ ...

Romans says many things, but I can't find anywhere it promises a specific inheritance just to Jews. If you mean:

"What then shall we say? That the Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, have obtained it, a righteousness that is by faith; but Israel, who pursued a law of righteousness, has not attained it."

That is not referring to Jews, but to Israelites. Not the same thing at all. It's about the new covenant verses the old. Israelites received the old covenant, not Jews. There werent' any Jews around at that time.

[B.R. Burton]

Thanks Bobby. I was accused earlier of manufacturing a quote from the Bible, when in another post I wrote, "Those who curse Israel will be cursed, those who bless Israel will be blessed - Genesis 12:3" - which no doubt talks to Abraham, but by default, applies to Israel - but I was accused of fraud, and attempting to pass that off as a quote. Phew.

[Bobby777]

there were no Jews when Paul wrote Romans? ... hmmm ... who were the 500,000 people killed in Israel in 70 A.D. by Titus then?

[B.R. Burton]

What he is referring to is a technicality in that the Israelites who accepted the Torah were not called "Jews" - since the term didn't arise till later.

[PaulKersey]

It's about the new covenant verses the old. Israelites received the old covenant, not Jews. There werent' any Jews around at that time.

We are talking about the old covenant. There were no Jews around at the time the old covenant was given.

[pgkdan]

Tough sh*t, 'cause it ain't gonna happen. That's why they are so continually frustrated when they babble on at this site.

Hah! I wouldn't speak about anyone babbling were I you.

[Bobby777]

hmmm ... OK ... I think you might be splitting hairs though ... Jesus is a Jew ... obviously ... and that's good enough for me ... and the Samaritan woman at the well knew He was a Jew ... and He did not dispute it ...

John 4:9 KJV Then saith the woman of Samaria unto Him, "How is it that Thou, being a Jew, askest drink of me, which am a woman of Samaria? for the Jews have no dealings with the Samaritans."

[PaulKersey]

We are talking about the old covenant. There were no Jews around at the time the old covenant was given.

Also, See Post # 36 by Freeper Lost Tribe for more information on what was happening at the time the old covenant was given. There was not a Jew in sight.

[B.R. Burton]

I agree, the distinction is splitting hairs. A technicality.

[B.R. Burton]

Some pro-Jewish verses:

"You Samaritans worship what you do not know; we worship what we do know, for salvation is from the Jews." - John 4:22

"This is what the Lord Almighty says: "In those days ten men from all languages and nations will take firm hold of one Jew by the hem of his robe and say, 'Let us go with you, because we have heard that God is with you.' - Zechariah 8:23

"I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God for the salvation of everyone who believes: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile." - Romans 1:16

"They were pleased to do it, and indeed they owe it to them. For if the Gentiles have shared in the Jews' spiritual blessings, they owe it to the Jews to share with them their material blessings. -Romans 15:27 "When they heard this, they praised God. Then they said to Paul: "You see, brother, how many thousands of Jews have believed, and all of them are zealous for the law." -Acts 21:20"

"At Iconium Paul and Barnabas went as usual into the Jewish synagogue. There they spoke so effectively that a great number of Jews and Gentiles believed." - Acts 14:1

"Many of the Jews believed, as did also a number of prominent Greek women and many Greek men." - Acts 17:12

Therefore many of the Jews who had come to visit Mary, and had seen what Jesus did [raise Lazarus], put their faith in him." - John 11

[Cultural Jihad]

The title of the article is actual!

So NewsMax misspelled the name "Israel" in title of their email, and you had copied it exactly as it was sent to you? Did you check the headers to make sure it came from who purported to send it?

[BibChr]

Amen, and well-put. It was partly for this reason that I majored in OT for my Master's: because Christians are ignorant of 2/3 of God's Word to them. Nor is it hard to see why, in some cases. The un-reformed replacement types makes such a muddle of the predictive section (unless they're about Christ's first coming, or Israel's judgment) that most must figure "Why bother?"

Dan

[LostTribe]

GENTILE is a generic word. Like the words FOREIGNER and STRANGER it has no specific meaning until the user gives it a context. A Foreigner to one person is a Countryman to another.  A Stranger to one person is a Friend to another.  A Gentile to one group of people is a Relative to another group.

Recognizing that "Gentile" simply means "not quite like us" Mormons call non-Mormons "Gentiles" and Jews call non-Jews "Gentiles".  But outside a specific context the word Gentile does not stand on it's own.

For Example: The Lost Sheep of the House of Israel are a unique sub-set of Gentiles who are Israelites, but not Jews. From a Jewish perspective they are Gentiles, but from an Israelite perspective they are not.  So when we read:

Matthew 10:5-6  These twelve Jesus sent out and commanded them, saying: "Do not go into the way of the Gentiles, and do not enter a city of the Samaritans. But go rather to the Lost Sheep of The House of Israel."

we need to remember that the Title House of Israel was assigned to the Northern Kingdom as part of their Eternal Heritage when the Davidic Kingdom split.  Its members were never Jewish, therefore Jesus command to go first to the Lost Sheep of The House of Israel was NOT a command to go first to lost Jews.

Jesus was both an Israelite and a Jew and what He said here was "do not go to the Israelite Gentiles."  (A common misinterpretation has Him talking about Jewish Gentiles.)

The House of Israel later became The Lost Tribes of Israel who won their freedom from the Assyrians ~610 BC. These 5 MILLION Israelites spread quickly to the West and North where they became known to history as The CELTS and later as The Europeans and Americans. It was to these non-Jewish ISRAELITE CELTIC GENTILES in Galatia, etc. that Jesus first sent his 12 apostles.

These Northern Kingdom Israelites were not Jews, thus were Gentiles in the Jewish sense.  But they were not Gentiles in the Israelite sense because they WERE Israelites. This huge nation of Israelites was simply called the The Lost Sheep of the House of Israel.

These ISRAELITE CELTIC GENTILES made up the bulk of the early Christians, and all the promises they received as Israelites were, and are, still good today. Gods inheritance has no statue of limitations.