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Dinosaur Shocker (YEC say dinosaur soft tissue couldn’t possibly survive millions of years)
Smithsonian Magazine ^ | May 1, 2006 | Helen Fields

Posted on 05/01/2006 8:29:14 AM PDT by SirLinksalot

Dinosaur Shocker

By Helen Fields

Neatly dressed in blue Capri pants and a sleeveless top, long hair flowing over her bare shoulders, Mary Schweitzer sits at a microscope in a dim lab, her face lit only by a glowing computer screen showing a network of thin, branching vessels. That’s right, blood vessels. From a dinosaur. “Ho-ho-ho, I am excite-e-e-e-d,” she chuckles. “I am, like, really excited.”

After 68 million years in the ground, a Tyrannosaurus rex found in Montana was dug up, its leg bone was broken in pieces, and fragments were dissolved in acid in Schweitzer’s laboratory at North Carolina State University in Raleigh. “Cool beans,” she says, looking at the image on the screen.

It was big news indeed last year when Schweitzer announced she had discovered blood vessels and structures that looked like whole cells inside that T. rex bone—the first observation of its kind. The finding amazed colleagues, who had never imagined that even a trace of still-soft dinosaur tissue could survive. After all, as any textbook will tell you, when an animal dies, soft tissues such as blood vessels, muscle and skin decay and disappear over time, while hard tissues like bone may gradually acquire minerals from the environment and become fossils. Schweitzer, one of the first scientists to use the tools of modern cell biology to study dinosaurs, has upended the conventional wisdom by showing that some rock-hard fossils tens of millions of years old may have remnants of soft tissues hidden away in their interiors. “The reason it hasn’t been discovered before is no right-thinking paleontologist would do what Mary did with her specimens. We don’t go to all this effort to dig this stuff out of the ground to then destroy it in acid,” says dinosaur paleontologist Thomas Holtz Jr., of the University of Maryland. “It’s great science.” The observations could shed new light on how dinosaurs evolved and how their muscles and blood vessels worked. And the new findings might help settle a long-running debate about whether dinosaurs were warmblooded, coldblooded—or both.

Meanwhile, Schweitzer’s research has been hijacked by “young earth” creationists, who insist that dinosaur soft tissue couldn’t possibly survive millions of years. They claim her discoveries support their belief, based on their interpretation of Genesis, that the earth is only a few thousand years old. Of course, it’s not unusual for a paleontologist to differ with creationists. But when creationists misrepresent Schweitzer’s data, she takes it personally: she describes herself as “a complete and total Christian.” On a shelf in her office is a plaque bearing an Old Testament verse: “For I know the plans I have for you,” declares the Lord, “plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future.”

It may be that Schweitzer’s unorthodox approach to paleontology can be traced to her roundabout career path. Growing up in Helena, Montana, she went through a phase when, like many kids, she was fascinated by dinosaurs. In fact, at age 5 she announced she was going to be a paleontologist. But first she got a college degree in communicative disorders, married, had three children and briefly taught remedial biology to high schoolers. In 1989, a dozen years after she graduated from college, she sat in on a class at Montana State University taught by paleontologist Jack Horner, of the Museum of the Rockies, now an affiliate of the Smithsonian Institution. The lectures reignited her passion for dinosaurs. Soon after, she talked her way into a volunteer position in Horner’s lab and began to pursue a doctorate in paleontology.

She initially thought she would study how the microscopic structure of dinosaur bones differs depending on how much the animal weighs. But then came the incident with the red spots.

AdvertisementIn 1991, Schweitzer was trying to study thin slices of bones from a 65-million-year-old T. rex. She was having a hard time getting the slices to stick to a glass slide, so she sought help from a molecular biologist at the university. The biologist, Gayle Callis, happened to take the slides to a veterinary conference, where she set up the ancient samples for others to look at. One of the vets went up to Callis and said, “Do you know you have red blood cells in that bone?” Sure enough, under a microscope, it appeared that the bone was filled with red disks. Later, Schweitzer recalls, “I looked at this and I looked at this and I thought, this can’t be. Red blood cells don’t preserve.”

Schweitzer showed the slide to Horner. “When she first found the red-blood-cell-looking structures, I said, Yep, that’s what they look like,” her mentor recalls. He thought it was possible they were red blood cells, but he gave her some advice: “Now see if you can find some evidence to show that that’s not what they are.”

What she found instead was evidence of heme in the bones—additional support for the idea that they were red blood cells. Heme is a part of hemoglobin, the protein that carries oxygen in the blood and gives red blood cells their color. “It got me real curious as to exceptional preservation,” she says. If particles of that one dinosaur were able to hang around for 65 million years, maybe the textbooks were wrong about fossilization.

Schweitzer tends to be self-deprecating, claiming to be hopeless at computers, lab work and talking to strangers. But colleagues admire her, saying she’s determined and hard-working and has mastered a number of complex laboratory techniques that are beyond the skills of most paleontologists. And asking unusual questions took a lot of nerve. “If you point her in a direction and say, don’t go that way, she’s the kind of person who’ll say, Why?—and she goes and tests it herself,” says Gregory Erickson, a paleobiologist at Florida State University. Schweitzer takes risks, says Karen Chin, a University of Colorado paleontologist. “It could be a big payoff or it could just be kind of a ho-hum research project.”

In 2000, Bob Harmon, a field crew chief from the Museum of the Rockies, was eating his lunch in a remote Montana canyon when he looked up and saw a bone sticking out of a rock wall. That bone turned out to be part of what may be the best preserved T. rex in the world. Over the next three summers, workers chipped away at the dinosaur, gradually removing it from the cliff face. They called it B. rex in Harmon’s honor and nicknamed it Bob. In 2001, they encased a section of the dinosaur and the surrounding dirt in plaster to protect it. The package weighed more than 2,000 pounds, which turned out to be just above their helicopter’s capacity, so they split it in half. One of B. rex’s leg bones was broken into two big pieces and several fragments—just what Schweitzer needed for her micro-scale explorations.

It turned out Bob had been misnamed. “It’s a girl and she’s pregnant,” Schweitzer recalls telling her lab technician when she looked at the fragments. On the hollow inside surface of the femur, Schweitzer had found scraps of bone that gave a surprising amount of information about the dinosaur that made them. Bones may seem as steady as stone, but they’re actually constantly in flux. Pregnant women use calcium from their bones to build the skeleton of a developing fetus. Before female birds start to lay eggs, they form a calcium-rich structure called medullary bone on the inside of their leg and other bones; they draw on it during the breeding season to make eggshells. Schweitzer had studied birds, so she knew about medullary bone, and that’s what she figured she was seeing in that T. rex specimen.

Most paleontologists now agree that birds are the dinosaurs’ closest living relatives. In fact, they say that birds are dinosaurs—colorful, incredibly diverse, cute little feathered dinosaurs. The theropod of the Jurassic forests lives on in the goldfinch visiting the backyard feeder, the toucans of the tropics and the ostriches loping across the African savanna.

To understand her dinosaur bone, Schweitzer turned to two of the most primitive living birds: ostriches and emus. In the summer of 2004, she asked several ostrich breeders for female bones. A farmer called, months later. “Y’all still need that lady ostrich?” The dead bird had been in the farmer’s backhoe bucket for several days in the North Carolina heat. Schweitzer and two colleagues collected a leg from the fragrant carcass and drove it back to Raleigh.

AdvertisementAs far as anyone can tell, Schweitzer was right: Bob the dinosaur really did have a store of medullary bone when she died. A paper published in Science last June presents microscope pictures of medullary bone from ostrich and emu side by side with dinosaur bone, showing near-identical features.

In the course of testing a B. rex bone fragment further, Schweitzer asked her lab technician, Jennifer Wittmeyer, to put it in weak acid, which slowly dissolves bone, including fossilized bone—but not soft tissues. One Friday night in January 2004, Wittmeyer was in the lab as usual. She took out a fossil chip that had been in the acid for three days and put it under the microscope to take a picture. “[The chip] was curved so much, I couldn’t get it in focus,” Wittmeyer recalls. She used forceps to flatten it. “My forceps kind of sunk into it, made a little indentation and it curled back up. I was like, stop it!” Finally, through her irritation, she realized what she had: a fragment of dinosaur soft tissue left behind when the mineral bone around it had dissolved. Suddenly Schweitzer and Wittmeyer were dealing with something no one else had ever seen. For a couple of weeks, Wittmeyer said, it was like Christmas every day.

In the lab, Wittmeyer now takes out a dish with six compartments, each holding a little brown dab of tissue in clear liquid, and puts it under the microscope lens. Inside each specimen is a fine network of almost-clear branching vessels—the tissue of a female Tyrannosaurus rex that strode through the forests 68 million years ago, preparing to lay eggs. Close up, the blood vessels from that T. rex and her ostrich cousins look remarkably alike. Inside the dinosaur vessels are things Schweitzer diplomatically calls “round microstructures” in the journal article, out of an abundance of scientific caution, but they are red and round, and she and other scientists suspect that they are red blood cells.

Of course, what everyone wants to know is whether DNA might be lurking in that tissue. Wittmeyer, from much experience with the press since the discovery, calls this “the awful question”—whether Schweitzer’s work is paving the road to a real-life version of science fiction’s Jurassic Park, where dinosaurs were regenerated from DNA preserved in amber. But DNA, which carries the genetic script for an animal, is a very fragile molecule. It’s also ridiculously hard to study because it is so easily contaminated with modern biological material, such as microbes or skin cells, while buried or after being dug up. Instead, Schweitzer has been testing her dinosaur tissue samples for proteins, which are a bit hardier and more readily distinguished from contaminants. Specifically, she’s been looking for collagen, elastin and hemoglobin. Collagen makes up much of the bone scaffolding, elastin is wrapped around blood vessels and hemoglobin carries oxygen inside red blood cells.

Because the chemical makeup of proteins changes through evolution, scientists can study protein sequences to learn more about how dinosaurs evolved. And because proteins do all the work in the body, studying them could someday help scientists understand dinosaur physiology—how their muscles and blood vessels worked, for example.

Proteins are much too tiny to pick out with a microscope. To look for them, Schweitzer uses antibodies, immune system molecules that recognize and bind to specific sections of proteins. Schweitzer and Wittmeyer have been using antibodies to chicken collagen, cow elastin and ostrich hemoglobin to search for similar molecules in the dinosaur tissue. At an October 2005 paleontology conference, Schweitzer presented preliminary evidence that she has detected real dinosaur proteins in her specimens.

Further discoveries in the past year have shown that the discovery of soft tissue in B. rex wasn’t just a fluke. Schweitzer and Wittmeyer have now found probable blood vessels, bone-building cells and connective tissue in another T. rex, in a theropod from Argentina and in a 300,000-year-old woolly mammoth fossil. Schweitzer’s work is “showing us we really don’t understand decay,” Holtz says. “There’s a lot of really basic stuff in nature that people just make assumptions about.”

young-earth creationists also see Schweitzer’s work as revolutionary, but in an entirely different way. They first seized upon Schweitzer’s work after she wrote an article for the popular science magazine Earth in 1997 about possible red blood cells in her dinosaur specimens. Creation magazine claimed that Schweitzer’s research was “powerful testimony against the whole idea of dinosaurs living millions of years ago. It speaks volumes for the Bible’s account of a recent creation.”

This drives Schweitzer crazy. Geologists have established that the Hell Creek Formation, where B. rex was found, is 68 million years old, and so are the bones buried in it. She’s horrified that some Christians accuse her of hiding the true meaning of her data. “They treat you really bad,” she says. “They twist your words and they manipulate your data.” For her, science and religion represent two different ways of looking at the world; invoking the hand of God to explain natural phenomena breaks the rules of science. After all, she says, what God asks is faith, not evidence. “If you have all this evidence and proof positive that God exists, you don’t need faith. I think he kind of designed it so that we’d never be able to prove his existence. And I think that’s really cool.”

By definition, there is a lot that scientists don’t know, because the whole point of science is to explore the unknown. By being clear that scientists haven’t explained everything, Schweitzer leaves room for other explanations. “I think that we’re always wise to leave certain doors open,” she says.

But schweitzer’s interest in the long-term preservation of molecules and cells does have an otherworldly dimension: she’s collaborating with NASA scientists on the search for evidence of possible past life on Mars, Saturn’s moon Titan, and other heavenly bodies. (Scientists announced this spring, for instance, that Saturn’s tiny moon Enceladus appears to have liquid water, a probable precondition for life.)

Astrobiology is one of the wackier branches of biology, dealing in life that might or might not exist and might or might not take any recognizable form. “For almost everybody who works on NASA stuff, they are just in hog heaven, working on astrobiology questions,” Schweitzer says. Her NASA research involves using antibodies to probe for signs of life in unexpected places. “For me, it’s the means to an end. I really want to know about my dinosaurs.”

AdvertisementTo that purpose, Schweitzer, with Wittmeyer, spends hours in front of microscopes in dark rooms. To a fourth-generation Montanan, even the relatively laid-back Raleigh area is a big city. She reminisces wistfully about scouting for field sites on horseback in Montana. “Paleontology by microscope is not that fun,” she says. “I’d much rather be out tromping around.”

“My eyeballs are just absolutely fried,” Schweitzer says after hours of gazing through the microscope’s eyepieces at glowing vessels and blobs. You could call it the price she pays for not being typical.


TOPICS: Heated Discussion
KEYWORDS: crevolist; dinosaur; dinosaurs; evolution; godsgravesglyphs; maryschweitzer; paleontology; shocker
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To: CarolinaGuitarman

You have to understand, in his universe, A does not equal A. Logic doesn't apply. Something can be unfalsifiable AND falsified at the same time. War is peace. Love is hate.

That's the impression I've gotten.

861 posted on 05/02/2006 6:22:08 PM PDT by ml1954 (NOT the disruptive troll seen frequently on CREVO threads.)
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To: ml1954
Then you should be show how you didn't.

I be sure did.

862 posted on 05/02/2006 6:22:24 PM PDT by AndrewC (Darwinian logic -- It is just-so if it is just-so)
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To: AndrewC

"Oh, so evidence that existed, did not exist."

If he faked it it wasn't evidence, which is why nobody could replicate his work. In order for your analogy to hold, you have to demonstrate faked evidence in support of evolution. Good luck with that.

Evolution cannot be unfalsifiable and have evidence that goes against it. It's logically impossible.


863 posted on 05/02/2006 6:24:03 PM PDT by CarolinaGuitarman ("There is grandeur in this view of life....")
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To: CarolinaGuitarman
Evolution cannot be unfalsifiable and have evidence that goes against it. It's logically impossible.

Unlike ID. (Talk about unfalsifiable, and a complete lack of evidence to boot!)

864 posted on 05/02/2006 6:26:20 PM PDT by Coyoteman (Creationists know Jack Chick about evolution.)
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To: AndrewC

865 posted on 05/02/2006 6:28:01 PM PDT by js1138 (somewhere, some time ago, something happened, but whatever it was, wasn't evolution)
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To: AndrewC

I be sure did.

You've convinced yourself. However, what you wrote.."I contend that Darwinism is also non-falsifiable. Any evidence contrary to the dogma will be marginalized and ridiculed." obviously contradicts itself.

Won't you enlighten the lurkers on how it doesn't?

866 posted on 05/02/2006 6:30:43 PM PDT by ml1954 (NOT the disruptive troll seen frequently on CREVO threads.)
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To: CarolinaGuitarman
Evolution cannot be unfalsifiable and have evidence that goes against it

Really!!??? I suppose the marginalizing and ridiculing I mentioned in my second contention would be done for grins.

867 posted on 05/02/2006 6:31:15 PM PDT by AndrewC (Darwinian logic -- It is just-so if it is just-so)
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To: AndrewC
"Really!!??"

Really.

"I suppose the marginalizing and ridiculing I mentioned in my second contention would be done for grins."

Sorry, you still have not shown where evolution evidence has been faked. Or where anti-evolution evidence has been ignored.

Or how this makes evolution both unfalsifiable and falsified.
868 posted on 05/02/2006 6:33:27 PM PDT by CarolinaGuitarman ("There is grandeur in this view of life....")
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To: AndrewC
Evolution cannot be unfalsifiable and have evidence that goes against it

Really!!??? I suppose the marginalizing and ridiculing I mentioned in my second contention would be done for grins.

More likely for religious, rather than scientific reasons.

869 posted on 05/02/2006 6:36:29 PM PDT by Coyoteman (Creationists know Jack Chick about evolution.)
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To: ml1954
Won't you enlighten the lurkers on how it doesn't?

I already did.

870 posted on 05/02/2006 6:41:16 PM PDT by AndrewC (Darwinian logic -- It is just-so if it is just-so)
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To: stands2reason
"I never knew there were so many YEC'ers here. The IDers like to pretend you guys don't exist."

I believe that to folks who believe in God (and thus, by extension, must believe in ID in some form or another), the YEC-ers are the equivalent of the "crazy aunt up in the attic"...better to ignore and deny their existence than to acknowledge a relationship...

The small minority of YEC-ers have done a better job discrediting religious people than any atheist could ever do....

They are nuts, plain and simple; know-nothing, don't want to know anything, nut jobs....

That is my opinion (and, OBTW, I am a Christian...who agrees completely with Pope John Paul II's statement on this subject...)

871 posted on 05/02/2006 6:41:58 PM PDT by Al Simmons (Four-time Bush Voter 1994-2004!!!!!!!!!!!!)
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To: CarolinaGuitarman
Sorry, you still have not shown where evolution evidence has been faked.

Do you know what a contention(assertion) is?

872 posted on 05/02/2006 6:42:45 PM PDT by AndrewC (Darwinian logic -- It is just-so if it is just-so)
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To: AndrewC

"Do you know what a contention(assertion) is?"

Yes; do you?


873 posted on 05/02/2006 6:43:32 PM PDT by CarolinaGuitarman ("There is grandeur in this view of life....")
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To: Coyoteman
More likely for religious, rather than scientific reasons.

The church of Dawkins is rather well attended here.

874 posted on 05/02/2006 6:43:53 PM PDT by AndrewC (Darwinian logic -- It is just-so if it is just-so)
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To: Heartlander; Alamo-Girl; marron; hosepipe; King Prout; Doctor Stochastic; Right Wing Professor; ...
The one thing we’ve learned from history is that it repeats itself. We are currently looking at the new improved enlightenment movement (or ‘brights’ ) back now with even bigger dogma and more massive control - and even more baggage than before.

Such a beautiful, well-meditated, heartfelt, and eminently rational post there, Heartlander. IMHO FWIW.

But not to worry: Truth is Truth. There is nothing that man can do to modify it or displace it in one iota. The universe itself depends on it for its existence, its order.

And so it stands to reason: History repeats itself because it is governed by higher laws that human beings do not pay adequate attention to. And so we ever seem to be "surprised" by its enfoldment in time.

In the meanwhile, Man is called to recognize and adjust himself to a reality that was already "ordered" before he was born into the world.. There is no rational evasion from the proposition that Truth finally rules the universe.

A "ratio" always invokes that which is the determining factor by which one changing thing can be interpreted by reference to another thing which does not change.

We know that in nature, some things change, and some things don't. If we didn't think so, then we'd have to throw out any conceivable basis by which to establish universal law -- which is the "thing" that does not change. And at that point, science itself would be dead.

And science itself is supposed to be a rational activity. So why would it want to do that -- to "throw out the baby with the bathwater," as it were?

The reason "history repeats itself" is because Truth is alive in history, as it is in science, as it is in any human endeavor of any kind at any time. And mankind is slow to "take the lesson."

Thank you so much for your beautiful essay Heartlander. I'll be meditating it further my friend.

875 posted on 05/02/2006 6:44:43 PM PDT by betty boop (The world of Appearance is Reality’s cloak -- "Nature loves to hide.")
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To: Al Simmons
The small minority of YEC-ers have done a better job discrediting religious people than any atheist could ever do....

Usually, even a non-Christian knows something about the heavens, and the other elements of the world, about the motion and orbit of the stars and even their size and relative positions, about the predictable eclipses of the sun and the moon, the cycles of the years and the seasons, about the kinds of animals, shrubs, stones, and so forth, and this knowledge he holds to be certain from reason and experience. Now it is a disgraceful and dangerous thing for an infidel to hear a Christian, presumably giving the meaning of Holy Scripture, talking nonsense on these topics; and we should take all means to prevent such an embarrassing situation, in which people show up vast ignorance in a Christian and laugh it to scorn. The shame is not so much that an ignorant individual is derided, but that people outside the household of faith think our sacred writers held such opinions and, to the great loss of those for whose salvation we toil, the writers of our Scripture are criticized and rejected as unlearned men. If they find a Christian mistaken in a field which they themselves know well and they hear him maintaining his foolish opinions about our books, how are they going to believe those books in matters concerning the resurrection of the dead, the hope of eternal life, and the kingdom of heaven, when they think their pages are full of falsehoods on facts which they themselves have learnt from experience and the light of reason? Reckless and incompetent expounders of Holy Scripture bring untold trouble and sorrow on their wiser brethren when they are caught in one of their mischievous false opinions and are taken to task by those who are not bound by the authority of our sacred books. For then, to defend their utterly foolish and obviously untrue statements, they will try to call upon Holy Scripture for proof and even recite from memory many passages which they think support their position, although they understand neither what they say nor the things about which they make confident assertions [quoting 1Ti. 1:7].

St. Augustine, The Literal Meaning of Genesis, 1:42-43.


876 posted on 05/02/2006 6:45:00 PM PDT by Coyoteman (Creationists know Jack Chick about evolution.)
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To: AndrewC

I already did.

So you wish to let the record stand as it is?

877 posted on 05/02/2006 6:45:45 PM PDT by ml1954 (NOT the disruptive troll seen frequently on CREVO threads.)
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To: CarolinaGuitarman
Yes; do you?

I contend that Darwinism is also non-falsifiable.

878 posted on 05/02/2006 6:46:20 PM PDT by AndrewC (Darwinian logic -- It is just-so if it is just-so)
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To: AndrewC
More likely for religious, rather than scientific reasons.

The church of Dawkins is rather well attended here.

Are you suggesting that your opposition to the theory of evolution is scientific, not religious, in nature?

And I am not clear on what Dawkins and his church has to do with your specific objections to evolution?

879 posted on 05/02/2006 6:49:39 PM PDT by Coyoteman (Creationists know Jack Chick about evolution.)
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To: AndrewC
"I contend that Darwinism is also non-falsifiable."

Then you must also contend that there exists no evidence that can possibly go against it. You have already said that such evidence exists but has been ignored; therefore, your contention that evolution is unfalsifiable cannot be true, if this alleged evidence really does exist. You can't have it both ways.

Basic logic. Try it sometime.
880 posted on 05/02/2006 6:50:59 PM PDT by CarolinaGuitarman ("There is grandeur in this view of life....")
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