SUTORO=SOETORO
Posted on 03/08/2014 6:07:03 AM PST by Flotsam_Jetsome
So when did Ann's and Obama Sr.'s "whatever happened happened fast" wedding happen? For no apparent reason, confusion abounds among Obama's biographers over the wedding date:
1. Dreams claims that Ann and Obama Sr. were in married "in 1960"; similarly, Mendell's 2007 book claims that the couple were married "sometime in late 1960" when they "slipped off alone to the island of Maui"; and both Obamaland (2008) by Ron Jacobs (with contributor David Maraniss) and a 2007 Washington Post article claim that the two were married "late in 1960."
2. A 2007 Chicago Tribune article vaguely claims that Ann and Obama Sr. were married "six months before" Barack's birth on Aug 4, 1961 -- or, in other words, sometime in early 1961.
3. An April 2008 Time article by Amanda Ripley, as does Maraniss's August 2008 article, gives a specific date of February 2, 1961 for the wedding, apparently based on Ann's and Obama Sr.'s 1964 divorce records – mysteriously appearing on the web. But since fake documents have been known to appear on the web, Obama's biographers, Ripley and Maraniss, might want to verify the 1964 divorce documents – especially since a Feb. 2, 1961 marriage date for "Ann and Obama Sr." wasn't reported in any Honolulu Advertiser or Honolulu Star-Bulletin marriage lists from February 1961. Take the February 8, 1961 Star-Bulletin, which listed eighteen marriages from Feb. 3, Feb. 4, and Feb. 6, and no Feb. 2 marriages, and the February 7, 1961 Advertiser, which listed eleven marriages from Feb. 2 to 4, including two Feb. 2 marriages.
(Excerpt) Read more at americanthinker.com ...
Thanks for posting that, doesn’t change what he might have returned to after an adoption was annulled, but it sure helped sort out why he might have been held by immigration in 1971, became a ward of the state for a time, at least until the man who bequeathed his name to him in 1982 showed up, and set the crooked record on its continued crooked path...
What an expensive exercise that must have been.
Observation regarding the instruction “Amend to include (exclude) children” on the second page:
“Barack Hussein Obama II” was being included since there were no parentheses around it, and” Soebarkah” was being excluded since there WERE parentheses around the name.
Then the whole thing was lined out.
Looks like there was a problem with adding BHO II and deleting Soebarkah, possibly due to no proof of name change from BHO II to Soebarkah.
So it was left as-is.
I really shouldn’t laugh, but it’s starting to look like he might have landed in Hawaii in 1969 with LIA (who died suddenly) in tow, on an Indonesian Passport in the name of BHO2 Soebarkah, and attended school for a few months, (according to images and Scott Inoue) and then again arrived in Hawaii on his own with the same passport in 1971, and this time, without a return ticket. That would have been of interest to immigration at the airport. Who is he, and who does he belong to? No matter what the Dunham couple may have said, there was no evidence to hand that tied him to this couple of elderly people.
Would love to have been there.
Very interesting.
Flotsam_Jetsome,
Frim the article, here is some other information about where they lived; reference the Polk directory entries :
“...... Although not at “10th Avenue” as Maraniss claimed, the 1960-1961 Honolulu Polk directory does show Obama Sr. residing(r) at 625 11 Ave.
Based on a library date stamp of “Aug 29, 1961” in the 1960-1961 Honolulu Polk directory, it is estimated that names for the directory were collected late in 1960 or collected early in 1961. So it does appear at least that Obama Sr. was living at the 11 Ave. address in the fall of 1960 and/or spring of 1961 – when Barack’s “calculated” conception took place. But Ann’s daughter, Maya Soetoro, postulated “with a chuckle” in David Mendell’s 2007 Obama biography From Promise to Power that her hapa-Kenyan brother “was conceived” in a “nondescript concrete dormitory building just inside the campus” in which Obama Sr. “had been living” “while he and Ann dated.” Since, in reality, Obama Sr.’s apparent 11 Avenue address in the fall of 1960 was not a dormitory “just inside the campus,” but rather a house over 1.5 miles from campus, we have to ask if Maya was confused, purposefully deceitful, or a combination of both. Notably, Obama Sr.’s 11 Avenue address listed in the 1960-1961 and 1961-1962 Honolulu Polk directories doesn’t appear in any of Obama Sr.’s INS files, which listed four Honolulu addresses: 1810 University Ave., 2036 Round Top Terrace, 1704 Punahou St., and 1482 Alencastre St. Therefore, the authenticity of Obama Sr.’s INS files – which sat in Sally Jacobs’s desk for almost two years before being released to the public in 2011 – needs to be questioned.
Ann’s mother Madeline Dunham “insisted” in Mendell’s 2007 book that Ann and Obama Sr. were, in fact, “legally married.” So when did Ann and Obama Sr. live together as a “married” couple after their “legal marriage” – whenever the date? Dreams gave the impression (oddly, since, by all accounts, Obama Sr. left Hawaii in 1962) of the family living together for approximately two years, stating that Obama Sr. “left Hawaii back in 1963, when I was only two years old.” And two birth announcements found in the Honolulu newspapers from August 13-14, 1961 do give the appearance of Ann and Obama Sr. living together at 6085 Kalanianaole Hwy. – at the time of the Barack’s birth.
However, the 1961-1962 Honolulu Polk directory shows the Dunham family (Stanley, Madelyn, and Ann Obama) residing at the 6085 Kalanianaole Hwy. address, while “Obama Barack H” resided separately at 625 11 Ave.
Since it is estimated from a library date stamp of “April 1962” in the 1961-1962 Honolulu Polk directory that the names were collected in the second half of 1961, or possibly collected early in 1962, and since Ann reportedly left Hawaii for Seattle in August 1961, it appears that Ann and Obama Sr. never lived together – not even for a day. Maraniss does concede in his 2012 Obama biography that “[Ann] and Obama and the infant never lived [at 6085 Kalanianaole].” But Maraniss vaguely implied that Ann, Obama Sr., and baby Barack may have lived at “1482 Alencastre Street” – even though the Honolulu Polk directories listed Obama Sr. residing at 11 Ave. By all appearances, Maraniss doesn’t have a clue if, when, and where the Obama Sr. family ever lived together. .....”
“
I really shouldn’t laugh,but it’s starting to look like he might have landed in Hawaii in 1969 with LIA (who died suddenly) in tow,on an Indonesian Passport in the name of BHO2 Soebarkah,and attended school for a few months,(according to images and Scott Inoue) and then again arrived in Hawaii on his own with the same passport in 1971,and this time,without a return ticket. That would have been of interest to immigration at the airport. Who is he,and who does he belong to? No matter what the Dunham couple may have said,there was no evidence to hand that tied him to this couple of elderly people. ...”
Would they have been accompanied by an adult in 1969?
If not, who would have met them at the airport?
One day when you have that epiphany you need to have, you will realize, as did I, that Madelyn Dunham wasn't the mother of 'ANN S. OBAMA' listed in the Polk, Madelyn was the mother of Stanley Ann Dunham, who wasn't married to anyone in 1961 or 1962 - the girl married to the kenyan wasn't Stanley Ann Dunham.
You have to learn to separate your ANN from ANNA and STANLEY ANN.
You've been fooled by composite characters. And if Madelyn did say what she's reported to have said by Mendell, she wasn't lying. The girl married to the kenyan student was named Ann. She just wasn't a Dunham. So Madelyn saying that Ann was married to Barack would have been perfectly true.
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There's ni way of knowing.
If not, who would have met them at the airport?
He was around eight years of age in 1969, Lia was a little older. Can you imagine them walking out of the airport on their own and jumping into a taxi? I can't. Two children would have been met by an adult. But it would have been possible. Both of them did return to Indonesia, so they must have had paid return tickets. And THAT makes a huge difference to immigration.
Just try landing in any country today with just your luggage, no evident relatives, nowhere to stay and no means of return to your home. Especially children...with probable Indonesian passports.
What got me thinking on the article mention of the Polk directory was, it had Stanley armour, Madelyn, and one of those Ann’s at the one address kalanianaole (sp?).
Then theres that picture of the bunch of students with “Kenyan pipe guy” and another Ann. That is something to go on...
OK, that got me going again....grab that honolulu Polk directory for 1961 and look for all the OTHER “xxxx, Ann, studt” and see how many there are.
Then see what their last names are, and then see if they went to the same school as “Kenyan pipe guy”.
Then can see how many Ann’s “Kenyan pipe guy” could have ran into at the Hawaii school.
Also, armed with those full names, could see where they transferred and how many Ann’s transferred to a university in Washington state .
OKs I guess what I was wondering was, why didnt 0 and his sis run into the same problem that 0 would have run into on his ‘solo’ flight to Hawaii.
I mean, here you have 2 kids going from Indonesia to Hawaii and then going back to indonesia after a year or so.
Then you have 0 going from Indo to Hawaii all by himself a couple years later.
My questions would be how would they treat it at immigration, whether or not the kids had return tickets... they are entering the country and who is there to meet them?
And how do those meeting them prove the familial connection, in BOTH cases.
The student shown in the Polk was Ann S Obama. Also listed at that address were the Dunham couple, and their employer Pratt and his wife with whom they shared the house. I don’t have that particular listing, I think that information came from Maraniss, who spoke to the Pratt daughter. She apparently stated that she could not remember a Dunham daughter with a baby.
There was an ANNE/USA shown in a photograph sitting next to the kenyan student at the home of the Nachmanoffs. Kiri Tith, who was there, remembers her. She was a student at the East-West Centre. Kiri apparently knew her surname, I’ve forgotten it. She was Japanese.
I am really not sure who you mean by the ‘kenyan pipe guy’ but I expect you mean the man we know as Barack Obama, the student from Kenya.
As for the rest of it, you might need to go to the library in Honolulu and go through the Polk directories - but study this first:
http://myveryownpointofview.wordpress.com/2011/02/05/pssst-hey-buddy-wanna-see-my-polk/
Sorry, I really don't get the point of your question. The two children arrived in Hawaii, we know that much. To do that they had to have a passport, a visa, and if they were foreign nationals, the very least they would have needed was a RETURN ticket. Adults to pick them up, with whom they are going to stay, would be a reasonable requirement. The reason for the trip would have been stated on their visa; for a holiday.
That's trip number one. The second time, he shows up on his own, he might not have a return ticket, and there's nothing to show that he's related to the people who have come to collect him. And that's before you cover whether his passport was Indonesian or American.
'Dreams' covers this by telling you he was sent to Hawaii for his education, and that SAD promised she would follow in a year 'tops' - remember? It all wasn't very well thought out, obviously. It all sounds like he had his own passport, no return ticket and just two elderly people at the airport to pick him up - to whom he may or may not have been related.
Under those circumstances, would you expect immigration to just hand over a nine or ten year old?
I can investigate further, but Indonesian children under 17 were not issued passports in their own name until ~2004.
All my kids had to be on their Mum’s passport until then, except for my one daughter who was already 21 in 2004.
Exemptions to this rule were given if the minor had a student visa to study abroad, or in extraordinary compassionate cases wherein the minor needed medical treatment, etc, abroad.
Interesting situation...so what if an expat wanted to send a child back to the US for a holiday, accompanied by an Indonesian-born teenager?
We know the two of them did make the journey. Lia said that Madelyn bought her a monkey-doll. Mind you, Madelyn might also have bought her the monkey-doll in Indonesia, when she visited her daughter when Maya was born.
Maya has a birthday late in 1970, iirc. So perhaps the 1969 photograph with Scott Inoue was Christmas 1969, Lia returned to Indonesia on her own after three months and zero returned to Indonesia with Madelyn, in August?
Isn’t marvellous...everywhere you look, nothing makes sense or adds up.
But your input would be much appreciated.
It could be that zero was issued a passport somehow based upon the aforementioned extraordinary or compassionate grounds. Anything is possible here, if you pay or have the right connection.
You did allude earlier, in your mail to me, that Lolo was part of a presidential security detail when he traveled to USA with Soekarno. He probably had the pull to get an exemption for the little bugger.
Of course...I had almost forgotten that, 'LT SUTORO' gave his address as 'The Palace' and Alice Dewey said at an interview that Stanley Ann lived in the grounds of the Djakarta Sultan's Palace...
http://www.americanthinker.com/2011/12/obamas_new_nationalism_more_sukarno_than_teddy_roosevelt.html
Mayo Soetoro-Ng, Obama’s half sister, has publicly mentioned her grandmother’s “royal blood,” and University of Hawaii anthropology professor Alice Dewey, Stanley Ann Dunham’s close friend and thesis adviser, told me in a phone interview last year1 that:
Lolo’s mother, Ann, and Maya lived inside the royal area of Yogyokarta when I visited them in 1978-1979. She was related to the Sultan, I think probably at the second-cousin level or maybe even the first-cousin level. They — Ann, her daughter Maya, and her mother-in-law— lived in a house very near the center of that walled area, which suggested to me that she had a fairly close family relationship to the sultan. The betang is traditionally the area reserved for the extended royal family of the Sultan Hamengkubuwono. No one who was a foreigner without royal blood could live there.
Soetoro’s familial relations to the Sultan would explain why he received a scholarship to the University of Hawaii East-West Center program. Typically, foreign governments recommend students who have some sort of political connection.
SUTORO=SOETORO
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