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Why men should be able to sue women who lie about who's the daddy
JWR ^ | Nov. 27 , 2002 / 22 Kislev, 5763 | Dan Abrams

Posted on 11/29/2002 7:08:00 AM PST by Balto_Boy

On Friday, Nebraska's highest court ruled that a man whose ex-wife may have lied to him about being the father of their child cannot sue the woman for fraud and emotional distress. Why not?

IN ANY other realm of the law this would be a classic case of fraud. Robert Day had already been divorced from his wife for six years when he realized he was out of town when she conceived. A DNA test proved with 100 percent certainty that Adam wasn't his. Well Robert Day alleged that mom lied about her due date to fool him.

He had paid child support, medical expenses and even half of his wife's employment-related daycare costs after their divorce. She's since remarried. The court cited a number of psychological studies about the importance of parents bonding with children and held "In effect Robert is saying he's not my son. I want my money back" and that the lawsuit "Has the effect of saying I wish you'd never been born to a child."

No, it says "You lied to me, I want my money back," and the lawsuit has the effect of saying "I wish you hadn't lied and now hope you'll go after the real father for the money you snookered me from me." Look, these cases are difficult and different. If the result would be that the child would suddenly go hungry or lose his home, those special circumstances should matter, but that should be the exception.

The court's opinion focuses solely on public policy. How is it good public policy to encourage a philandering woman to lie? Why shouldn't she at least have to seek out the real father to make him pay?


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To: BuddhaBoy
"No one should participate in an event that is biased against him, or promises to threaten the rest of his life, at the whim of another."

Exactly!

81 posted on 11/29/2002 9:54:32 AM PST by Enterprise
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To: babygene
There is nothing Christian about being taken advantage of. There is something Christian about taking into consideration the well-being of an innocent child who never asked to be born in the first place. If the duped man can get his money back from his philandering wife, good. The accompanying problem, though, is this: What will happen emotionally to the child who was formerly loved by his father, but suddenly appears no longer to be loved? He learns that love is something to be turned off at will. It's an emotional scar he/she carries for life. It is Christian to take this into consideration. It is Christian for the duped father to do something to see that the child is damaged as little as possible.
82 posted on 11/29/2002 10:00:35 AM PST by Clara Lou
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To: Enterprise
The view of women of America seems to be that if a woman has a baby, then she is ENTITLED to economic support. And she doesn't care who gets the bill, the real father, Society via welfare, or some poor guy she can dupe into believing that it's HIS. She had a baby, and by God, somebody has to pay! 59 posted on 11/29/2002 11:27 AM CST by Enterprise [ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies | Report Abuse ]

No, really-- you seem to be the spokesman for the "women of America." And I'm telling you that, by far, most women in America do not agree with what you attribute to them above.

83 posted on 11/29/2002 10:07:05 AM PST by Clara Lou
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To: BuddhaBoy
But what about those of us who recognize that marriage is an institution given to us by God? Who believe that the healthy and proper realization of our sexuality and the children that come from such a relationship are blessings and gifts from God to be cherished and loved and raised carefully?

What about those of us who realize that being a father and husband is not an artificial creation of a state and its legal rules but an essential part of who God made us to be?

What about those of us who have found a virtuous and beautiful woman, on the inside and out? What about those of us who have a chance to spend the rest of our life and our live with a woman who loves us deeply and absolutely, and shares our view of life and our religious beliefs? Who has an equal and strong commitment to and ability for building a God-pleasing family? Who we know we can trust and want to be with for the rest of our life together?

I am one of these men and I have a such a woman who I am seriously considering proposing to in the near future. Are you really going to tell me I shouldn't marry her? Even if I know I can trust her with everything forever, just as my parents and both sets of my grandparents have trusted each other, for 40, 50, and 60 years together for their entire lives together?

Think carefully about your advice, it says more about yourself than the unfair laws you are criticizing.

84 posted on 11/29/2002 10:10:37 AM PST by The Man
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To: BuddhaBoy
Maybe the answer is for young men to have a batch of their sperm frozen, and then have a vasectomy. This would give the male the power over procreation.

If his wife later got pregnant, and he had not supplied some of his special formula, he would know the child was not his own from the start.

Of course, if a male birth control pill ever comes along, it could have the same effect.
85 posted on 11/29/2002 10:13:28 AM PST by babygene
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To: Clara Lou
"No, really-- you seem to be the spokesman for the "women of America." And I'm telling you that, by far, most women in America do not agree with what you attribute to them above."

I am not anyone's spokesman. My statement is a generality, but you are free to prove me wrong that women who have a baby do not EXPECT economic support as a result of having a baby, or that they generally refrain from going to court to FORCE some man to pay support. In this thread, a man who is not the father has had to pay for the child. It is profound proof that women are vengeful about child support.

86 posted on 11/29/2002 10:18:50 AM PST by Enterprise
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To: I_Love_My_Husband
Find a good girl who is straight edge, doesn't do drugs, drink , smoke and is faithful.

That sounds very reasonable ... BUT ... many men are so immature when they marry. Their only criteria for a wife seems to be: "She's alot of fun!"

87 posted on 11/29/2002 10:19:51 AM PST by bimbo
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To: The Man
Think carefully about your advice, it says more about yourself than the unfair laws you are criticizing.

No it doesnt.

I didnt mention my values at all. It says something about those who feel they have the right to determine the values of others.

Those of you who feel different, should act differerent. Isnt that simple? Those of you who feel that my advice is somehow attacking your values, should just ignore it, as it isnt for you anyway.

My advice is for those who wish to avoid the consequences of potential fraud perpetuated against them. I have no problem with those of you who wish to roll the dice. I'm not attacking differing opinions, so I see no need for some to attack mine either.

Some of us are able to see differing opinions without feeling threatened. Feeling insecure about others differing from you, says more about YOU than about me.

88 posted on 11/29/2002 10:21:22 AM PST by BuddhaBoy
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To: babygene
Maybe the answer is for young men to have a batch of their sperm frozen, and then have a vasectomy. This would give the male the power over procreation.

I have done exactly that, and I am not ashamed to say so. This was after seeing the consequences first hand from friends who's wonderful little princess turned into the devil herself after getting her ring.

No one saw it coming, so I decided that it is never going to happen to me.

89 posted on 11/29/2002 10:23:34 AM PST by BuddhaBoy
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To: Clara Lou
" It is Christian for the duped father to do something to see that the child is damaged as little as possible."

Bull Sh@t. This man has no more responsibility for ensuring that "this" child doesn't suffer, than he does for the other billions (that’s billions with a B) of unfortunate children that are damaged who are not his.

He has no more moral responsible to this child than your husband does (if you are married).

90 posted on 11/29/2002 10:25:55 AM PST by babygene
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To: The Man
All of what you posted is very noble and admirable. But what about the tens of thousands of men who believed as you do, yet still lost their children, their homes, and much of their income after man-hating civil courts got through with them?
91 posted on 11/29/2002 10:27:49 AM PST by Enterprise
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To: babygene
I didn't use the word "responsibility." I used the word "Christian." Frequently these two words don't jibe.
92 posted on 11/29/2002 10:32:45 AM PST by Clara Lou
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To: All
If the child was not his, I think he has every right to sue her. But what happens to the kid? Does he have nothing to do with the kid anymore? That, in my opinion, is a little damaging to the child. Depending on the child's age, maybe the parents could sit him/her down and explain that he is not the child's real Dad, but he would be happy to still visit the child and do things with the child.

It is really terrible when women lie about the father of their children. It shortchanges the men, certainly, but what it does to the kids is worse.

Regarding all of the comments I have seen thus far--it is both the male and female's responsibility to prevent an unwanted pregnancy. Neither party has more of an obligation than another. It is something that is equally shared. If one doesn't want children, use birth control. Women can get all kinds of birth control nowadays, and men can use condoms. Problem solved. How hard is that?
93 posted on 11/29/2002 10:33:44 AM PST by Morrigan
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To: All
Do not suppose that this is uncommon, or cannot happen to you!

Studies have been done showing that of all babies born IN WEDLOCK in the USA, about 5% are not the biological child of the husband.

This is quite common, and the law and customs need to address it! Saying the baby looked more like the milkman than like his putative "father," is no joke!

94 posted on 11/29/2002 10:35:52 AM PST by crystalk
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To: wardaddy
Robert Day had already been divorced from his wife for six years when he realized he was out of town when she conceived.

As you said, sex has consequences. And if it took him six years to realize this and do the math, he's already hooked. And as Jimmy Carter once said, "Life is unfair". So, since he was a bit slow on the uptake, child support, "father" status, all the stuff that is needed for public policy went into effect.

Men are morally responsible for where they place their seed...tricked or not.

This is especially true with underage women. Something about statutory rape really kind of erked me in law school, 'cause ya feel for the poor soul who looks at jail time because of a fake ID, she told me she was 18, she looked like she was 18, etc, but if she is 17, you're dead meat.

But like this thread, and your observation, you gotta be responsible, and sex has consequences. It's much more difficult to be convicted of a crime or falsely accused of being the father if you actually meet the parents of the significant other prior to consumating, or more discreet with whom you recon with....

Pookie & ME

95 posted on 11/29/2002 10:36:52 AM PST by Pookie Me
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To: FITZ
Universal truth for men: be careful where you stick your d!ck. It can cost you your wealth, your health and/or your entire self.
96 posted on 11/29/2002 10:38:37 AM PST by ReaganCowboy
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To: Morrigan
It is really terrible when women lie about the father of their children. It shortchanges the men, certainly, but what it does to the kids is worse.

Why?

Please explain why a childs life is automatically MORE important than the life of a grown man.

This is the most fascist of beliefs. If all men are created equal, why then do some become LESS equal as they age?

No child is more or less important than anyone else, and this "for-the-children" rhetoric that has become so popular in today's culture is responsible for some of the most egregious attacks against our rights in the history of mankind.

At the rate we are going; someday, out of the blue, children are going to be assigned to people, purely out of need, and it will be mandated that they are provided for, regardless of no parental link.

This is no different then what is occuring today with men who have been defrauded by women who wrongly assign them as father on a birth certificate.

97 posted on 11/29/2002 10:41:16 AM PST by BuddhaBoy
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To: crystalk
Studies have been done showing that of all babies born IN WEDLOCK in the USA, about 5% are not the biological child of the husband.

I have seen studies where that figure is quickly approaching 10% in urban America, and over 20% in low income areas.

There needs to be a law passed mandating DNA testing of parents before the signing of a birth certificate, something that feminists are fighting against like mad. They have no problem with men being duped into supporting other men's children.

98 posted on 11/29/2002 10:45:34 AM PST by BuddhaBoy
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To: Clara Lou
"He has no more moral responsible to this child than your husband does (if you are married)." - babygene

"I didn't use the word "responsibility."" - Clara Lou

moral responsible = Christian
Don't try ot weasle out of this...
99 posted on 11/29/2002 10:46:30 AM PST by babygene
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To: Morrigan
If the child was not his, I think he has every right to sue her. But what happens to the kid? Does he have nothing to do with the kid anymore? That, in my opinion, is a little damaging to the child. Depending on the child's age, maybe the parents could sit him/her down and explain that he is not the child's real Dad, but he would be happy to still visit the child and do things with the child.

It says in the linked that the guy tried to get some visitation rights in 1999 (when he discovered the kid wasn't his & agreed to let "new daddy" adopt), but has not seen the kid since 1999 (i.e. in 2-3 years.) The mother may not desired any contact between him and the kid.
100 posted on 11/29/2002 10:46:36 AM PST by kilohertz
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