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The Battle Begins: ATF vs the Constitution
Tenth Amendment Center ^ | 07-18-09 | Tenth Amendment Center

Posted on 07/18/2009 7:52:40 PM PDT by sovereignty2

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To: BOBWADE
>Screw the feds. They have not jurisdiction

Like my father before me
I’m a working man
Like my brother above me
I took a rebel stand
He was just eighteen, proud and brave
But a Yankee laid him in his grave
I swear by the mud below my feet
You can’t raise a Cain back up
When he’s in defeat

The night they drove old Dixie down
All the bells were ringing
The night they drove old Dixie down
All the bells were ringing...

41 posted on 07/18/2009 9:29:56 PM PDT by theFIRMbss
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To: Kansas58
It would be the Federal law, that would be tested in Federal Court, and the State Law would be used as evidence against the Constitutional legality of the Federal law.

Agreed, agreed, agreed. I am not arguing with your basic concept, and I did say that the actual legal process could take a number of forms - civil, litigant; criminal, defendant.

BUT, my point is that there is adminsitrative and common law jurisdictions, and they are different. A federal administrative State is not a constitutionally created original state. And the Feds WILL presume federal administrative jusridiction, because with it, they win (for example, ATF is a federal agency, i.e. operating under federal administrative law).

It's jurisdicational warfare, and federal courts simply DO NOT acknowledge anything outside of administrative jurisdiction. In fact, they call any attempt at an argument outside of that jurisdiction "frivolous" (their term, not mine).

So, if there is a way to force a federal court to sit in their common law capacity, they ain't saying what it is. In fact, I have never heard of a court-acknowledged refutation to their presumption of administrative jurisdiction - ever.

It's a judiciary thing - the judges simply refuse to sit under common law. And nothing I know of can force them to, unless Congress passes a law that they do so. But why would they, since their power comes from imposing the presumption of federal administrative jurisidiction?

42 posted on 07/18/2009 9:35:26 PM PDT by Talisker (When you find a turtle on top of a fence post, you can be damn sure it didn't get there on it's own.)
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To: sovereignty2

I fully support the 10th and detest all gun laws that don’t deal with teh actual hurting of people. There should be no NICS checks, bans, age limits, FFL licensing, abolish the NFA, etc., but I have to point out one problem with this law....

TN state law requires all firearm sales from FFL dealers go through their state system called TICS. This law does not provide an exemption to the state law mandating buyers undergo a background check through the TICS system. So, due to an (intentional???) omission, the law is almost purely symbolic.

The challenge will come from manufacturers who wish to sell them directly to non-FFL holders without going through the TICS system.

(I owned a storefront gun shop for 2.5 years in East TN, and 2 years in NH.)


43 posted on 07/19/2009 7:33:40 AM PDT by Dayman (My 1919a4 is named Charlotte. When I light her up she has the voice of an angel.)
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To: papasmurf
The Tennessee General Assembly lacks the Constitutional authority to limit the power and authority of federal government in this way...

Well, first of all the feral government is the result of a compact by pre-existing states so I can't see why they would lack the power. But that's beside the point. In this case, they're not "limiting the power and authority of the federal government" so much as insisting that the limits already built in to the Constitution be honored, for the first time in decades. The limit is already there. To gripe at these guys for having the temerity to notice is to shoot the messenger.

44 posted on 07/19/2009 10:15:12 AM PDT by Still Thinking (If ignorance is bliss, liberals must be ecstatic!)
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To: Still Thinking

Well, I think, and I’m by no means an Attorney or scholar, that the ATF is setup to be a taxing authority. That being the case the Commerce clause comes into play, which has been widely abused. Specifically, I remember the United States v. Lopez, and Rehnquist slapped them down with (IIRC) a precisely worded defeat.


45 posted on 07/19/2009 10:36:12 AM PDT by papasmurf (RnVjayB5b3UsIDBiYW1hLCB5b3UgcGllY2Ugb2Ygc2hpdCBjb3dhcmQh)
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To: Talisker

In such a case, who would fight against the state of Tenn.?


46 posted on 07/19/2009 10:53:39 AM PDT by rightwingjew
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