Polar Ice Caps receding or expanding

vanity | December 9, 2009 | vanity

[Praxeologue]

vanity

[Praxeologue]

In conversations with global warming advocates, I am asked: "Are you telling me that those Landsat photos of the polar ice caps are doctored?" I don't have an answer for that, even after considerable searching. To the simple images of the receding advocates, the expanding images I have seen are either from less credible sources or of compromised integrity. The debate ends with the ice caps, because it is simple and visual. Debating average temperatures is exponentially more difficult to assess.

Can anyone provide a link to credible sources of clear, simple satellite photos that indicate unchanging or expanding polar ice caps?

[avid]

They are expanding but that doesn’t have anything to do with a climate change. It’s due to the ozone holes at the poles. They reduce the greenhouse effect.

[shibumi]

It’s clear to me that they are respanding exceeedingly.

http://www.heartland.org/policybot/results/851/Polar_ice_cap_studies_refute_global_warming.html

[Lancey Howard]

It wonder what would have happened to those poor polar bears if the world had listened to the climate alarmists back in 1975?

Climatologists are pessimistic that political leaders will take any positive action to compensate for the climatic change, or even to allay its effects. They concede that some of the more spectacular solutions proposed, such as melting the Arctic ice cap by covering it with black soot or diverting arctic rivers, might create problems far greater than those they solve... The longer the planners delay, the more difficult will they find it to cope with climatic change once the results become grim reality.

From: Newsweek: The Cooling World (April 28, 1975)

Meet the new alarmists, same as the old alarmists.

[Praxeologue]

It’s clear to me that they are respanding exceeedingly. http://www.heartland.org/policybot/results/851/Polar_ice_cap_studies_refute_global_warming.html

Thank you. However, this is an eight-year-old article from a libertarian foundation without satellite images. I hate to be picky, but I am dealing with people who need simplicity and pictures.

[Waco]

Wanna buy a years supply of food? Two years?? Pooooor Art Bell.

[Thickman]

I recommend the solarcycle24,com message board to find links to credible citations. There is one thread on the global warming board called “sea ice” or something like that that has lots of pictures, graphs and stuff. Lots of smart skeptics post there.

[Slings and Arrows]

It’s moments like this that make me proud to be a scientist.

[Straight Vermonter]

The arctic ice cap receded a great deal in 2007 because there was a prevailing wind which blew across the pole and into the Norwegian Sea. This meant that even as ice was formed in the winter the entire ice pack was being blown into the Atlantic. Temps in the region were no warmer that year than in previous years (or years since) it was simply a function of the prevailing wind. Since first year ice is weaker than multi-year ice there was a larger decline in the ice pack during the summer of 2008 than the average. In 2009 after a year of recovery the ice pack receded less than average during the summer.

This year the ice pack, so far, is expanding faster than normal.

BTW, while everyone talks about the arctic the antarctic actually contains 90% of the world's ice and has been growing.

[Praxeologue]

Meet the new alarmists, same as the old alarmists.

These "alarmists", however, are armed with the collective resources of the world's academia. They have their shocking images published throughout the MSM. My friends are not the problem. They are honest, misinformed people, just like millions of others.They are responsible and intelligent, but are overwhelmed with seemingly credible information from the "alarmists".

Simply calling them alarmists, accurate as it may be, does not convince them

[shibumi]

Gee, and I thought all you did was give away Kibble.

[smokingfrog]

The satellite photos only show how much area the ice covers. Doesn’t it also matter how thick the ice is? Do they have some way to measure that?

i.e. The prevailing winds could push the ice from one area to another, causing it to pile up, and still have the same amount of ice, more or less, just more concentrated in some areas instead of being spread out.

[Berlin_Freeper]

Fire Under Arctic Ice: Volcanoes Have Been Blowing Their Tops In The Deep Ocean

ScienceDaily (June 26, 2008) — A research team led by the Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution (WHOI) has uncovered evidence of explosive volcanic eruptions deep beneath the ice-covered surface of the Arctic Ocean. Such violent eruptions of splintered, fragmented rock--known as pyroclastic deposits -- were not thought possible at great ocean depths because of the intense weight and pressure of water and because of the composition of seafloor magma and rock.

[smoothsailing]

The polar bears are fine, but the penguins are feeling the heat...

[Berlin_Freeper]

As arctic ice melts, South Pole ice grows

Over the past 20 years, southern sea ice has expanded, in contrast to the Arctic's decline, and researchers want to understand why.

[shibumi]

Interesting (especially in light of the recent skullduggery uncovered at CRU) as I searched for images of the Antarctic Ice Cap growing I encountered the following:

http://images.search.yahoo.com/images/view?back=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.search.yahoo.com%2Fsearch%2Fimages%3Fp%3Dantarctic%2Bice%2Bcap%2Bgrowing%26ei%3DUTF-8%26fr2%3Dtab-web&w=580&h=471&imgurl=geology.wcedu.pima.edu%2F%7Ebnevarez%2Fwebdcutting_files%2FImage4.jpg&rurl=http%3A%2F%2Fgeology.wcedu.pima.edu%2F%7Ebnevarez%2Fwebdcutting.htm&size=86k&name=Image4+jpg&p=antarctic+ice+cap+growing&oid=f92905b6bc5fc91e&fr2=tab-web&no=4&tt=5&sigr=11nipbcrc&sigi=11t8872ci&sigb=12t686dbu

(Yes, it’s a real, albeit long, link.)

[Berlin_Freeper]

So in post 13 you got volcanos under the north pole which is supposedly getting smaller and in post 15 you got no volcanos under the south pole which is getting bigger.

I am no egghead even though i play one on the internet but that seems to me the answer is VOLCANOS.

Good luck with trying to regulate that.

[Praxeologue]

This year the ice pack, so far, is expanding faster than normal. BTW, while everyone talks about the arctic the antarctic actually contains 90% of the world's ice and has been growing.

Thank you. Your image would fit right in to an Al Gore slide show. The truth is the opposite of the image, so we can't use it.

We need an Arctic image from this Fall and expanding before and after Antarctic images.

Look at it this way. My friends are GW agnostics. They are shown your image and asked to become GW believers. Based on your image alone, it would not be unreasonable to accept the GW hypothesis. Then we give them a verbal explanation about winds blowing ice around and new ice and old ice and the south pack is expanding, but no images of that, and then ask for their vote. How would you react if you possessed only this information?

[Praxeologue]

Thank you for the “long link” image. “Expanding” was merely one of your search terms. There is only one image; a before and after is necessary. There is no date. Any further inquiry is “forbidden”, according to the source.

[shibumi]

My point was exactly that - NOT that the image proved anything, but that the owner of the image would not allow inquiry.

That struck me as odd.