Posted on 10/28/2011 7:00:35 AM PDT by JOHN W K
As an example of a Republican Party Hobson`s Choice candidate, Herman Cain, and his proposed `opportunity zones`, not only would his `opportunity zones` violate the Constitution, but they are a very bad idea in respect to the power that would be exercised by our folks in Washington under opportunity zones and how that power would affect our political system!
I object to the federal government entering my state and using the force of the federal government to pick winners and losers by allowing people living in an federally designated opportunity zone to be relieved from paying federal taxes, while those living outside a federally designated opportunity zone will be forced to pay those federal taxes.
I object to opportunity zones in that our federal government would be granting preferential regulations of commerce in defiance of our founder’s intentions stated in Article 1, Section 9, Clause 6; of our Constitution: No Preference shall be given by any Regulation of Commerce or Revenue to the Ports of one State over those of another: nor shall Vessels bound to, or from, one State, be obliged to enter, clear or pay Duties in another.
I object to opportunity zones being designated by our federal government in that such power opens the door for the federal government to blackmail the states as is now done with federal highway funds, or the more recent No Child Left Behind Act. If a State does not comply with the federal government’s whims and fancies within a designated “opportunity zone” or something related to the opportunity zone, is it not obvious from history the threat of revoking a State’s opportunity zone status hangs in the balance?
And, what can we expect when a particular party is in power in Washington? Will the States controlled by the opposite party be granted opportunity zone status, or will they be passed upon in favor of States whose political party controls Washington? The answer seems quite clear judging from Obama`s Solyndra deal and how friends are rewarded by folks in government and enemies are left to pay the tab.
I also object to our folks in Washington interfering with our free market system, picking winners and losers, and undermining the protections of federalism, our Constitution`s plan.
If Herman Cain, or any of our Republican candidates were sincere about wanting to offer a `bold plan` designed to end the class warfare game carried out under income taxation and unleash America’s free market so it could do its magic, they would be promoting the 32 word plan which would re-establish our Constitution’s ORIGINAL TAX PLAN as our founders intended it to operate:
The Sixteenth Amendment is hereby repealed and Congress is henceforth forbidden to lay ``any`` tax or burden calculated from profits, gains, interest, salaries, wages, tips, inheritances or any other lawfully realized money
Unfortunately none of our Republican Party Washington Establishment Hobson’s Choice candidates are willing to relinquish the despotic power and evil control which is exercised under a tax calculated from profits, gains, salaries and other “incomes”. And none of our Republican Party candidates are willing to end the Progressive`s occupation of America which began in 1913 with the 16th Amendment.
JWK
Read my lips Herman Cain! No additional sales tax on top of income taxes to feed the beast in Washington.
Just another scheme for the federal government to manage our lives and our economy. Heaven help us.
I object to the federal government entering my state and using the force of the federal government to pick winners and losers by allowing people living in an federally designated opportunity zone
I am usually very measured in my tones, but this passage alone is so egregious, it deserves a ZOT in an of itself.
You're just stupid if you think the federal government can or will "force" any locale to be an OZ. Locales must apply for the designation, which they will or will not do based on what citizens there want. Moreover, they must meet the criteria for an OZ, which again they do or do not do voluntarily.
And you're more stupid if you think the federal government can or will "allow" people to live anywhere. Guess what? Citizens will still be allowed to live wherever they want in the whole United States of America.
In fact, anyone who actually wants to live in one of these hellholes that might -- MIGHT -- be eligible to be an OZ, is more than welcome to move there so as to get a few percentage points off his already low (under 999) income tax rate.
And I say "might" be eligible, because to be eligible a locale will have to meet, VOLUNTARILY, certain criteria, such as abolishing minimum wage laws and implementing right-to-work policies.
Oh, wouldn't it be awful if Detroit voluntarily decided to become a right-to-work city. The Republic might fall. /s (No, but pigs would fly.)
These vanities are the worst of the worst, with nothing whatsoever to recommend them.
JWK
None of the tax revision schemes will get through Congress.
The most one could hope for is minor changes over decades.
Politicians like the convoluted tax code too much. It is an effective political weapon and persuader. They aren’t going to give that up, not for Perry, not for Cain.
These calls for change have been around for decades. They get a lot of speech and press time, but little Congressional action.
Cain has already been revision his initial plan. Some poster called it 9.1-9.1-9.1. Cain then dropped one of the 9’s for the poor — 9-0-9. Give it a decade or 50 years, and Cain’s 999 would be as bad, if not worse, than the monstrosity of the current thousands of pages of tax code.
Not a matter of luck or bad fortune, John.
It was planned that way.
Politicians are power-hungry; it's just he way they are. Find me one who would relinquish even a little power and I'll show you one who will not gain higher office . .
. . because the voters--and especially the voters whose success in business comes from government favors and/or contracts--relish the idea of having a powerful ally in government who can fix things for them.
That's how it works in Chicago, Detroit, Neu Yawk, Dallas and Washington, District of Criminals.
The job of a politician, to most of the country (and I'm sure a significant portion of those right here on FR) is not to relinquish but to redistribute the booty more to their liking.
The income tax as presently constituted is the ideal vehicle for such a thing, so don't expect the Republicans to go counter to the nation's traditions and habits.
ping
Cain's ideas are a framework to get these people working again. To qualify as an opportunity zone a city/region/state will have to be a “right to work” area (No more union control), Have “school choice” (No more indoctrination) and no minimum wage (more employment opportunities for teens).
He is simply providing a basis for getting the country back on the right track and removing the foundation of the dems/socialist strategy (make everyone dependent on the government).
more info here:
http://www.hermancain.com/wp-content/themes/hc/images/Opportunity_Zones%20.pdf
I called you no names. I said your “analysis” is stupid. And it took exquisite self-restraint for me to limit my comment to that.
And I did engage one of your points. You did not respond to that.
I meant to add, wasn’t Hobson’s Choice one of our recent WFTD exercises?
So let’s just all roll over and die.
Thank you.
Also John, Cain is the only candidate I’m aware of that is calling for repealing the 16th amendment.
from his website;
“Phase 2 – The Fair Tax
Amidst a backdrop of the economic renewal created by the 9-9-9 Plan, I will begin the process of educating the American people on the benefits of continuing the next step to the Fair Tax.
•Ultimately replaces individual and corporate income taxes
•Ends the IRS as we know it and repeals the 16th Amendment”
http://www.hermancain.com/999plan
How does the fact that locales will voluntarily apply, or not, to be designated an OZ, based on whether they voluntarily meet the criteria for such, square with your conclusion that the federal government will “come into your state and force” OZ on it?
Is your definition of “to force” include the decision to take multiple voluntary actions on the part of a locale?
Is your definition of “allowing citizens to live somewhere” include the fact that it is the citizens, themselves, who decide where they want to live, including having the freedom to move into or out of an OZ if they wish?
I responded to your objections and all you did was pout.
You can get as angry at JWK as you want but the fact remains that Cain said “it’s simple, it’s 999, it’s loophole free, and it applies to everyone”...
...and then he changed.
And he had to change. Because the DNC attack ads write themselves: “Cain will tax the poor, not the rich.”
And Cain sees those ads coming. So he has added zones. And he has added loopholes. And he has added exclusions.
It’s not 999 anymore. It’s 990. Or it’s 900. Or it’s 9-whatever-the-f*-you-want-—
Don’t get me wrong, I like Cain. I think he can win this thing and I think he will be good for America...
BUT...BUT....BUT...
Herman Cain has to unchain himself from 999. Or he’s not going to win diddly squat.
OZ do not apply to states as a whole. Please. Good grief, you're acting as though Cain has all by himself come up with the most diabolical and unheard of plan since Austin Powers.
It's laughable the amount of influence you see in what is a very small part of both Cain's plan and, if you look around and educate yourself on the history of these type of zones, a very negligible influence on the economy.
These OZ are for locales such as cities, not states, and they are no different from the types of economic development zones we have had throughout the previous decades. Except under 999, the OZ would actually do something constructive and conservative: the locales would have to voluntarily change their policies to align with free-market, pro-growth principles.
VOLUNTARILY.
No one is forcing states to accept, for example, the school lunch program and the federal strings that come with it. The states can say no at any time.
And you know why this continues? One reason has nothing to do with either the federal or the state governments. It's because millions of conservatives still have their kids in government schools, thus feeding the gravy train that keeps the states addicted to federal tax monies through "daily attendance rates" and so on.
Conservatives could shut down the federal education racket tomorrow by removing their children from government schools. Without that headcount, federal dollars, and control, of state education would severely wane.
Who's responsible for that?
I'm not "mad" at the OP. I find his analysis outrageously stupid and unhelpful. In fact, embarrassing in its lack of understanding of our federal system and certain features of our economic history. The OP has nothing to do with the points you make, so I'm not sure where you're coming from.
As for the above, it seems obvious that a major tax reform will, once the details are beginning (and they are only beginning to be) flushed out, include some exemption for low-income people. And Cain said from the beginning he was going to have a concept such as OZ. Wow, these have been around forever. WE HAVE THEM NOW. For the OP to breathlessly post that the Republic will fall if we carry on is just kooky.
And, guess what, it's not the DNC that causes this seeming rush to exempt lower-income people: it's people on the Right, such as Tea Party darling Michele Bachmann, who takes up the Libs' favorite tiny violin during a national debate watched by millions, where she starts wailing that 999 "hurts the poor the most."
Some freepers make a daily task out of arguing the same.
So how in Hell's Bells would ANY GOP candidate ever be able to pursue major tax reform without such provisions (exemptions for low income people and "special" opportunity zones, e.g.)?
That candidate doesn't have to beat the DNC. He has to shut up the Liberal-violin players IN HIS OWN PARTY, such as Michele Bachmann, and shut them up fast.
999 is what put Herman Cain on the map and there's a reason for that. I'm not suggesting that the plan doesn't need to evolve; of course, it does. We are talking about BOLD, HISTORIC, MAJOR reform: it's a process.
But as soon as it does, here come the people wailing that it's "changing" (as if adding detail is forbidden) and therefore, it "has to go."
Everything else that could be said about this ridiculous conclusion aside, please read the clause: it explicitly says the commerce of one STATE over ANOTHER STATE.
Interstate commerce is not burdened with "preferences" because, as we have today, some locales are designated as OZ, empowerment zones, economic development zones or whatever touchy-feely name is given these VOLUNTARILY obtained designations.
Good. Then you should support 999 because, unlike the Perry plan, it does away with the Fedzilla tax code entirely, thus getting the feds once and for all out of picking winners and losers and using the tax system for crony capitalism and corrupt funneling.
If you are trying to intimate that the mere existence of OZ equals the federal government picking winners and losers, nothing could be further from the truth.
OZ are SELF-SELECTED. The federal government would have nothing to do with. If a locale applies and meets the criteria volutarily, fine. How is that "picking winners and losers"? It isn't.
Further, how in the world do OZ have anything to do with winners and losers anyway? So a hellhole such as Detroit actually abolishes its minimum wage laws (ha!) and enacts right-to-work policies (ha!) and, with the little extra juice from the lower tax rate in an OZ, goes on a complete economic tear -- all based on its VOLUNTARY actions -- how does this make anyone else a loser?
Do you honestly believe that that these few and far between OZ, if any even make it to the table, will cause the rest of the entire nation to be unable to compete?
Gawd, I would be ROTLMBO now. Except this whole discussion is just embarrassing.
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