Posted on 11/24/2011 10:44:11 AM PST by Kevmo
Sven Kullander On Rossi And eCat
admin on November 23, 2011 — 6 Comments
http://ecatnews.com/?p=1409
The following was posted on the Facebook Energy Catalyzer page. It comes from Hampus Ericsson who attended Sven Kullander’s Örebro talk today. Kullander has been a key player in gaining Rossi credibility in the past few months. Taken in the sweep, it appears to me that he believes in Rossi and his claims but reserves the right to be wrong until definitive independent tests drive the nail home. His comment about AR’s prickly response to anyone who distrusts him is interesting. This flies counter to his public stance on genuine scepticism. No scientist should work completely on trust. No scientist will truly trust him/herself. Perhaps the comment relates to personal attacks on his integrity. That I would understand. He is right to be angry at those type of attacks.
I couldn’t stay for all of it because I have a train to catch. The lecture was good. He started by going I’ve all different types of nuclear power. And then he talked about hot fusion and when that might be functional.
Then the good par came, he talked about all the different test that have been made of Rossi’s ecat( basically read the NyTeknik reports.
Then he talked about his own test, he said that it proved that heat was made but he couldn’t say how, and he dont believe it’s cold fusion because that impossible by today’s science. But it could only be explained by cold fusion happening. He was very confused .
He also said that Rossi is definitely not a fraud and that his friend Focardi and Levi is absolutely not frauds. They are his friends and he trust them.
Rossi on the other had he said to be a black box.
He said that NASA had contacted him and asked about rossis ecat. So NASA was the first American customer that bailed. Apparently they wanted to know how it worked and Rossi wanted to keep the secret for himself.
Sven kullander did not know who the final costumer is.
He also said that Rossi can be a little bit angry at people who don’t trust him. That’s why Sven have kept on Rossi god side and never told him that it don’t work.
Sven said that he have asked Rossi if Uppsala university can independently test the device, with the demand that all information will be reveled to the public. If Rossi says no to this Uppsala will not test the device.
One of the most interesting thins was that Sven kullander sad that Focardi and Levi are both excellent professor that he believe a 100% in, Rossi on the other hand is a little bit of a black box. He said that there are two black boxes in this history, Rossi and he ecat.
He also said that his colleague Roland Peterson (think that was his name) is very positive on the ecat.
Sven also showed the test of the nickel fuel and the copper nickel that is left after the reaction. They will come out with a full article on this when all the testing is done. But the first test show copper in the waste
[With thanks to Akira Shirakawa on Vortex]
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More On The Sven Kullander eCat Talk
admin on November 24, 2011 — 11 Comments
http://ecatnews.com/?p=1416&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+ecatnews%2FAdFD+%28+%C2%BB+eCatNews+-+Rossi%E2%80%99s+Cold+Fusion+2.0%29
The pedigree of Sven Kullander and Hanno Essen is interesting. From Wikipedia:
Professor Kullander is professor emeritus of High Energy Physics at Uppsala University. Kullander received his doctorate from Uppsala University in 1971. Since 1990, Kullander has been a member of the Royal Swedish Academy of Sciences and chairman of its Energy Committee
Hanno Essén is an associate professor of theoretical physics and a lecturer at the Swedish Royal Institute of Technology and former chairman of the Swedish Skeptics Society
Their role in the Andrea Rossi affair began when they expressed an interest in the eCat and then attended a Bologna demo. During that demo, the eCat seemed to produce around 5kW of heat from a small sealed vessel (50 ccm) containing Hydrogen and Nickel. They were allowed to check for hidden conduits and examine the instruments and various elements of the system. They were not allowed access to the core but since it was small and the claimed energy large, it was reasonable to treat the device as a black box to determine its utility.
In many of the arguments posed by reasonable and unreasonable sceptics alike, doubt is often cast on those attending these events. Various inventions are created to explain why otherwise intelligent people could be so stupid as to fall for Rossi’s tricks. Senility, stupidity, human error, dishonesty, fraud and gullibility are all wheeled out in turn. If you have been there and leave believing the claim might be real, there has to be something wrong – you are either in on the scam or too dumb to see it.
No one can accuse Kullander or Essen of not being independent. How often have we heard that a scammer would never let an independent and qualified scientist near their scamming machine? And yet, here we have two physicists, both active and experienced, one the chairman of the Royal Swedish Academy of Sciences’ (of Nobel fame) Energy Committee and the other the former chairman of the Swedish Skeptics’ Society and both allowed dangerous and intimate access to a working eCat.
Both scientists are well aware that what they saw and measured does not constitute proof and neither can say with certainty that Rossi’s claims are true. They would be foolish to do so. Indeed both admit that they could not check everything and although they do not suspect fraud, they have to leave that door open as a small possibility.
They published a travel report detailing the demo and results and expressing their belief that (assuming no fraud) the eCat was producing so much energy that it had to be nuclear in origin.
For many months, both scientists remained out of the light and some hard sceptics wondered if they were distancing themselves from Rossi and that report – now embarrassed that they had ever been involved. However, recently Kullander has begun to publicly reveal his current thinking and yesterday gave a talk (Swedish) to an audience in Örebro. Today, Ny Teknik, the Swedish magazine responsible for extensive reporting throughout the year has published a pdf of that talk. Together with an audio recording by a member of the audience (again, in Swedish) and a variety of interpretations from around the Net, we begin to get a good idea of Kullander’s current view of Rossi and the eCat. It is nuanced and intelligent and does not conform to that expected of the term ‘Believer’.
To be fair, I doubt a reasonable sceptic would place that moniker on him as the scientist clearly leaves room for his conclusions to be wrong. That said, most of us have read others who are less supportive than Kullander being labeled as a believer as though the tag could colour you gullible.
The following has been Googleized from a report by Bertil Nilsson on a Swedish forum discussing Kullander’s talk (here is the audio):
Biggest “scoop” is well that, according to Rossi, it works without a catalyst. It can be measured net energy even with only nickel and hydrogen. He says that as a reason why his patent to go through. But it opens the course for the reproduction of this, we have many who can kalimoetri precision now after all the thinking.
Kullander is deeply skeptical of the proton capture of nickel, believes that there are other possibilities. He outlined a number of them, but I must return later. I can not enough to sum up the piece. He was puzzled by the presence of natural copper in the ash, but a detailed isotopic analysis is expected to be ready for Christmas
Kullander told further about their personal experiences of a large number of people at the University of Bologna has been more or less concerned about the ECAT, the most active of course Focardi and Levi. He feels these people knowledgeable and up to serious, from the president down. Kullander feel even Rossi as sincere and serious and a very knowledgeable and skilled engineer but somewhat discursive reasoning when entering the field of physics. He also talked about discussions he had with Levi for a large number of tests that are not described but conducted by Levi, who personally knows the ECAT works.
Kullander believes that Rossi for their own sake must be sure to get an independent verification of heat output and that he was not to be overtaken should ally itself with some great players, like Siemens or ABB. One problem here may be that Rossi has a deep personal relationship with their cats, as he usually describe them. Kullander has offered Rossi to test and verify an ECAT in Uppsala in collaboration with the University of Bologna. Discussions on this are ongoing. Kullander preclude an agreement whereby secrecy around that they have an ECAT in place or that the results may not be shown publicly.
The above is in addition to yesterday’s report which I repeat here:
I couldn’t stay for all of it because I have a train to catch. The lecture was good. He started by going I’ve all different types of nuclear power. And then he talked about hot fusion and when that might be functional.
Then the good par came, he talked about all the different test that have been made of Rossi’s ecat( basically read the NyTeknik reports.
Then he talked about his own test, he said that it proved that heat was made but he couldn’t say how, and he dont believe it’s cold fusion because that impossible by today’s science. But it could only be explained by cold fusion happening. He was very confused .
He also said that Rossi is definitely not a fraud and that his friend Focardi and Levi is absolutely not frauds. They are his friends and he trust them.
Rossi on the other had he said to be a black box.
He said that NASA had contacted him and asked about rossis ecat. So NASA was the first American customer that bailed. Apparently they wanted to know how it worked and Rossi wanted to keep the secret for himself.
Sven kullander did not know who the final costumer is.
He also said that Rossi can be a little bit angry at people who don’t trust him. That’s why Sven have kept on Rossi god side and never told him that it don’t work.
Sven said that he have asked Rossi if Uppsala university can independently test the device, with the demand that all information will be reveled to the public. If Rossi says no to this Uppsala will not test the device.
One of the most interesting thins was that Sven kullander sad that Focardi and Levi are both excellent professor that he believe a 100% in, Rossi on the other hand is a little bit of a black box. He said that there are two black boxes in this history, Rossi and he ecat.
He also said that his colleague Roland Peterson (think that was his name) is very positive on the ecat.
Sven also showed the test of the nickel fuel and the copper nickel that is left after the reaction. They will come out with a full article on this when all the testing is done. But the first test show copper in the waste.
[With thanks to Tom in the eCatNews.com comments section and Akira Shirakawa on Vortex]
You must relish being an Internet keyboard tough-guy, does it help you make it thru the night or do you still have problems from being picked on at school?
***It looks like your own post is a classic example of both — internet keyboard tough-guy bullying, and someone still having problems from being picked on at school. Like I’ve been saying, you’re wound up way too tight.
What will you do when Rossi takes the money and runs?
***What will you do when Rossi’s customers start acknowledging the ECat works?
***What will you do when Rossi’s customers start acknowledging the ECat works?If that happens, I, for one, will admit I was wrong and apologize.
Of course, we don't know of any customers yet, let alone any customers who have independently tested an E-Cat and found that it does anything at all.
As has been true for almost a year, all we have are Rossi's unsubstantiated claims.
My statement was a hypothetical response to a poster’s question of what could possibly cause a respected scientist to get sucked in by something that was questionable;
***Then you have discovered where your parallel does not break down. Steven Chu got drawn into the Solyndra thing because the scientific results were significant. So did Kullander.
I beg to differ. Solyndra only made sense if the economics worked (i.e., funny-shaped PV cells which made the panels' output less sensitive to positioning relative to the sun; this required a business plan which was economically based and took into account production costs and potential competition). I think Chu was lacking in his ability to evaluate the economics, and influenced by the belief and hope in all that was "green." Hence he was easily manipulated and misled by being presented a biased sample of research options--those associated primarily with Obama cronies.
I have a strong opinion on Chu, but I don't have one at all on Kullander. Hence, your rather lecturing comment to me that "I have discovered" something about my parallel, apparently elicited by your Socratic dialog with me isn't called for.
Sure, I’ll bite. Rossi lied about his education, claiming to be a trained engineer when in fact his engineering degree is from a diploma mill. You yourself acknowledged that Rossi intentionally used the wrong company name. I am on a mobile and do not have a way to look up all your stupid Rossi posts right now, but I’ll find them later. In the meantime, perhaps you could try a bit of honest reflection about things you’ve written in defense of Rossi, whether they are consistent, and most of all, whether they are true.
So pathetic, do you really think Rossi's coattails will pull you along if he's right?
I almost feel bad, poor science skills, non existent html skills, I'm sure your parents loved you.
Oh BTW, since Rossi is a fraud, it won't be his coattails, it will be an anchor, hang on and hold your breath.
You were a sucker...
Is it the website that is immortal or the products that are sold to make others immortal? Then again, if you're immortal, at least your new website will give you something to do a hundred years from now.
I'm looking for my order of the Gorgeouspill, I certainly need it...
I'll hold off on the Super Chi Flush, I don't want anything burning thru anything in my body unless it's hot sauce and his product sounds like it's more of a colon blow that could hit at any time.
Funny that Rossi hasn't got a U.S. patent but this guy does for his immortality ring??? I would say that's a version of a perpetual motion machine.
Bravo, classic
***thanks
So pathetic, do you really think Rossi’s coattails will pull you along if he’s right?
***I was a Freeper long before Rossi came along. I was posting LENR threads before he came along. I’ll be posting LENR threads afterwards if he’s a fraud.
Oh BTW, since Rossi is a fraud, it won’t be his coattails, it will be an anchor, hang on and hold your breath.
***Your conclusion is not provable, just like mine. But proceeding from an unprovable conclusion is just another argument from silence, yet another classic fallacy. The seagull brigade seems to utilize these fallacies well more than the average 4th grader who has been exposed to how invalid they are.
You yourself acknowledged that Rossi intentionally used the wrong company name.
***Finally, after all that teeth pulling, you come up with an example. Notably you can’t produce the link.
As I said, I am on a cellphone and cannot search for it. I will find a d post it to you, and I will expect a public apology.
I beg to differ. Solyndra only made sense if the economics worked
***It did work. What it did not foresee was how fast the Chinese would catch up as competition, AFAIK.
(i.e., funny-shaped PV cells which made the panels’ output less sensitive to positioning relative to the sun; this required a business plan which was economically based and took into account production costs and potential competition).
***I’m not too current on Solyndra, I’ll take your word for it.
I think Chu was lacking in his ability to evaluate the economics, and influenced by the belief and hope in all that was “green.” Hence he was easily manipulated and misled by being presented a biased sample of research options—those associated primarily with Obama cronies.
***So, somehow this roundabout explanation may be a proper parallel with LENR and Kullander, but not Levi and Focardi and anyone who’s familiar with LENR results before Rossi came along.
I have a strong opinion on Chu, but I don’t have one at all on Kullander. Hence, your rather lecturing comment to me that “I have discovered” something about my parallel, apparently elicited by your Socratic dialog with me isn’t called for.
***You are the one calling up the parallel. Where it works, we use it. Where it doesn’t work, we toss it.
You have wasted too much of my time to deserve an apology, even if you are right. Accusations of lies should be backed up within one post. Period.
poor science skills,
***I’ll line mine up to yours. We just don’t have a way of doing that. You exhibit very, very poor inductive reasoning skills. Your lack of skills are demonstrated by all those classic fallacies you keep using.
You demand everyone live by your rules yet you don't. Just so you don't misinterpret this, I'm calling you a hypocrite. Period.
Simply pathetic...
I don't think he had the slightest idea of how Department of Energy works. The only worse appointee there was that lady Bill Clinton put in charge. She got all upset about the "color coded" passes in use at the DOE secure sites so she had them abolished. She didn't believe in "discrimination based on color".
As my old carpool buddy used to say about DOE (his employer was just down the street from USPS where I worked) "It is full of political scientists". So now we know what that meant.
It's sad really, to see how bitter you are, so sad.
I addressed that. You missed it. What else have you missed? Lurkers can decide for themselves.
Too afraid to line up your skills to mine, I see. Perhaps you need to look in the mirror for the largest source of bitterness around here.
And here's poor poor Kevmo, Rossi doesn't even know you exist.
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