Posted on 03/24/2012 8:47:14 AM PDT by Travis McGee
(Snip) The death weapon was a Kel-Tec PF9 semiautomatic 9mm pistol. It has been reported that the gun was recovered with a full magazine and that only the chambered round had been fired. This is a condition we associate with something preventing the gun from cycling a fresh round from the magazine into the chamber after the shot was discharged. One thing that can cause that is another man’s hand wrapped around the pistol, retarding its slide mechanism. This would indicate, as could certain gunshot residue patterns or cuts in certain places if found on Trayvon Martin’s hand(s), that a struggle for a gun was taking place when the fatal shot was fired. This would clearly change the shape of the case. But – WE DON’T KNOW YET. Both men, according to initial reports, were “squeaky clean” in terms of their background. We now know, meh, not so much. There were allegations of domestic abuse against Zimmerman, and a conviction for resisting arrest, in his past. Young Mr. Martin was in the complex in the first place so his dad could straighten him out after being kicked out of school for a week…for what, we don’t know. Pundits who don’t all seem to understand the concept are tying this shooting in to Florida’s Stand Your Ground law much more than they should. There is conflicting evidence/testimony as to whether Martin approached Zimmerman or vice versa in the penultimate moments before the physical fight that led to the fatal shot. There is, in short, not yet enough information for any of us outside the investigation to formulate a solid opinion.
(Excerpt) Read more at backwoodshome.com ...
“1). If he had a full clip, then he was walking around with a chambered round. That is a dangerous thing to do and is greatly discouraged. “
Wrong.
You clearly don’t know much about guns. I CCW every day with one in the chamber. Everyone I know CCWs with one in the chamber. I have never heard anyone in an instuctional setting (and I have taken instruction well beyond the CCW class) say don’t carry one in the chamber. One in the chamber is the preferred way to carry any modern combat sidearm.
You should not offer firearms advice until you understand how they operate. From your statements, it is clear that you do not.
I do and virtually everyone I know who carries does.
I don’t carry a spare magazine (not clip) and want to have the full capacity the gun is capable of. With my Glock G23 that gives me 14 rounds of .40 caliber pain. If I need more than that then I am definitely in the wrong place at the wrong time. Since I go out of my way to avoid that I don’t carry a spare magazine.
I think my point was that, how does he know the status of the gun and mag? Ill try to refer to my friend Roy Bedard and see what his opinion is and Ill get back with everyone..
You had better have one chambered if you are carrying concealed, you will probably not have time to work the slide if you encounter trouble. Besides some judges might see the act of physically chambering a round an aggressive act. . Everyone I know who has a CCW carries with one in the chamber and safety on, even 1911s should be chambered and locked with safety strap between firing pin and hammer. Personally, I carry a revolver concealed so it is always ready to go, or do you think all chambers should be empty and I should load when I feel in danger?
Seems to me you are the one without experience if you carry unloaded.
forgive me oh mighty ones.
Grief, I have been on FR for years and have never been as insulted as I have on this thread.
So much for working with the guy who owns but doesn’t carry every moment of the day.
I think it is safer to not keep a round in the chamber of an automatic. It is my prerogative.
Do safety devices ever fail? Are they completely infallible?
I don’t have a anti-2nd amendment agenda. I don’t carry every moment of the week. I do support concealed carry and open carry. I am not anti-gun.
Give a guy a break.
Firearms owners are on the offensive against bad info, what with media campaigns that completely mistake common facts like "semi-auto assault weapons spray bullets and are fired from the hip".
I wouldn't take it personally.
There was an earlier report that the magazine was still full, and that only the chambered round was fired. Presumably this detail was released by the police—only one bullet was fired.
Several people commented that maybe the reporter got the story wrong, since ordinarily a round from the magazine would have replaced the one that was fired in the chamber.
But, it now looks like that earlier report was correct, and that Mas Ayoob has given a likely explanation for it.
The press are the same people who think evil semi-auto "assault rifles" spray bullets like a Tommy Gun.
I have mostly automatics and I like them, but I have always thought revolvers were safer and are simpler. No, I have no problem with a fully loaded revolver. It would be silly not to be loaded. I wouldn’t walk around with the hammer back.
That is what I see with a round in the chamber of an automatic.
Those of you who shoot every day or even weekly see things differently. That is fine. If I had the time to do it more, I would probably feel the same way.
My view of concealed carry is that you most often know when something odd is occurring. The hair on the back of your neck moment. And if it happens, hopefully, I will have the time to pull, chamber and think a quick prayer. I am not a gun slinger, an I have no ambition to be. If I got put in a position where some wacko like at VT happens, I would like to be able to slow the nut or stop him. I pray that I will never be in that position.
I pray that nobody ever is in that position again, but after seeing the shooting in France and the pictures of that beautiful little girl that the monster gunned down, I really would like to see most of our population carrying.
Those of us who can’t shoot every day or even very often, probably shouldn’t keep a round chambered.
jmho
I’m coming in on this dispute late. I don’t think the intention is to criticize what you prefer to do. That’s your choice. It’s just that, if someone is attacked, how they carry their weapon could be a life or death matter, and they are afraid that someone reading this thread might take the wrong advice and get killed by an attacker before they can defend themselves.
But he played High School football! We still don't know enough to form a judgment.
I agree that the photo of him wearing a white hoodie makes him look like choir boy (photo-shopped?).
Regards,
GtG
PS I was 6'4" and 160# in high school and most certainly not a "bean pole"!
This whole thing pisses me off. Once again, just because I’m white, and a republican, I am somehow made to be the fall guy because some guy somewhere shot a black person.
You are right, we don’t know what happened. But I don’t know why I should be invested in whether Zimmerman is guilty of something or not. He’s some guy in Florida. But somehow the President of the United States is taking sides, and reminding me that he is black and I am not. Somehow, Gingrich and Santorum think this is an important presidential issue. Somehow congressional aides think it is important to protest, as if everybody involved isn’t already wanting to learn what really happened.
It’s like preemptive outrage. Nobody is happy a kid got shot, especially an unarmed kid. But it’s apparently conservatives at fault, because we are all racists. It pisses me off.
So much that I feel like I want to defend Zimmerman, when two days ago I was happy to throw him under the bus if he was guilty. That is what the race-baiters have done, taken something that all of us should be united about (sorrow that an unarmed kid got killed, and interest in learning all the facts and making sure that if someone committed a crime, they be punished regardless of their race), and have instead forced a division, made it political, and have trampled on a poor kid’s grave for their own purposes.
That's exactly what they want.....the words of Booker T Washington:
"I am afraid that there is a certain class of race-problem solvers who don't want the patient to get well, because as long as the disease holds out they have not only an easy means of making a living, but also an easy medium through which to make themselves prominent before the public."
Thanks 101,
If I had the time (and money :-) I would be out in the woods several times a week. I do enjoy shooting and I like teaching my kids.
Your positive responses definitely smoothed my ruffled feathers.
I don’t know every detail of firearms. I miss use terms and mix and match the terms clip and magazine and probably who know what else, but I did attend a safety course two years ago with my oldest son. His scout leader taught it and it was pretty cool. I learned a lot and until then I did keep a round chambered. This might have been the instructors preference not to keep one in the chamber because of how infrequently most of us would be shooting and he was just looking out for us. It also had to do with his engineering back ground and his belief that mechanical things are built to fail.
Any way, I keep a full clip or is it magazine, but I don’t keep it chambered. I keep a second clip handy at home. I don’t carry the second. Generally, I don’t get into these discussions because I don’t like to even acknowledge that I own anything because I don’t want people to have a clue what I have. However, since I did get a Conceal Carry Permit a few years ago, I figure the people that I am most concerned about knowing that I have something, already know.
BTW, everything I have got lost when my canoe sunk last year.
I know very little about firearms, what does it mean when it mentions a “battery” on the gun?
Yep. Many, many years ago, a black man in Ft. Worth, Texas, was murdered as he chatted outside with a co-worker. The man was murdered in a drive-by by a guy who just didn't like the fact that a black man and a white man were having a conversation.
At his trial, the jury apparently misunderstood the judge's orders and handed down a sentence that limited the criminal to time served. IOW, he walked out of a court a free man, despite having been convicted or murder.
There was such an outcry , including a march downtown that I participated in over the injustice of the sentence, that the feds eventually stepped in and charged the criminal with a RICO act violation and got a conviction that ended up with him serving a long sentence.
Given the lack of information about the facts here, it appears that the best we can hope for is (as much as I hate to say this today) the feds stepping in and conducting their own investigation. Right now, we don't know if the Sanford PD bungled the investigation, or if there is a whitewash of the story (for whatever reason) or if Zimmerman really IS innocent of killing this kid in self defense. All we have is speculation and innuendo and there needs to be an honest investigation and presentation of the facts before this situation gets much worse.
I agree. I am trying not to knee jerk defend Zimmerman but that is what those creeps Al Sharpton, Farakan and Obama and all the demonstrators are making me want to do.
It doesn't refer to a part of the gun as a battery.
That one had me puzzled, too. After getting creamed all thread, I was too intimidated to ask. :-)
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