Posted on 08/16/2012 7:43:49 AM PDT by Academiadotorg
...and then waited until December 8, 1941 to declare war against Japan...
...so as to induce Hitler to declare war on us on December 11...
...so that we, already at war with Japan (for three whole days) could finally turn around and declare war on Germany in order to help the USSR.
That FDR was one clever sumbitch, I'll tell you what.
Think you're mixing up two different Hoovers. J. Edgar and Herbert are not the same guy.
LOL
A good summary.
This was the balance rope Churchill and Roosevelt walked.
A gamble that won as evidenced by the numbers above.
We are fortunate that nukes ended this magnitude of conflicts, at least in the progressive world.
It is ‘controversial’ I’ll see if I can find it for you... Stand by...
***but that the quick collapse of France prevented that.***
A shock and sarcastic “NO!”
Actually, I don’t know what I’m talking about. Pay no attention to my previous post.
You are quite correct. It has been pointed out that Hitler had no treaty or other requirement to declare war on USA. He just decided, all on his own, to do so.
Whoever won would have been much weakened. The reason Hitler started WW2 was that his system was a complete bust economically -- he HAD to conquer and loot other countries to keep afloat. Stalin was in much the same boat. We would have been better off supplying Britain while Germany was occupied elsewhere.
***...so as to induce Hitler to declare war on us on December 11... ****
We were already in an undeclared war with Germany when the Japs attacked Pearl Harbor.
Have you heard of that ship the good RUBEN JAMES? Sunk by a German U-boat on October 23, 1941.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Reuben_James_%28DD-245%29
http://www.woodyguthrie.org/Lyrics/Sinking_Of_The_Reuben_James.htm
The capture of Moscow by the Germans would not have changed the overall outcome of the Eastern Front. The Soviets were prepared.
Most of the Soviet Staff actually expected Moscow to fall. As a result Kubyshev was designated as the temporary capital in case the city fell. It was about 600 miles or so to the east and pretty much all of the Soviet Staff and Stavka were there, including Molotov and even Lenin. It was a huge industrial town with a large population.
A skeleton force remained in Moscow along with an armored train to escort Stalin and the Generals to safety in case all failed.
Moscow itself was booby trapped. 1200 buildings including the Kremilin Govt. Buildings and even the Bolshoi Theatre were rigged with explosives as these were the first buildings which would have surely been visited by the German High Command.
Partisan groups were already set up to continue the fight and were even given special assignments after the city fell.
Soviet industry was in the process of being moved east of the Urals.
Don’t forget the one that has really gone down the memory hole: Finland.
Everybody talks about the gallant Finns of the Winter War, and nobody ever mentions them fighting alongside the Nazis later in the war.
BTW, the Finns were the only allies whose divisions were regarded by the Germans as equivalent to a German unit.
Now that's funny!
Stalin had utterly destroyed the Red Army officer corps during the Great Purge, and then went after the few survivors in May and June of 1941.
Which is quite possibly the worst timing in the history of the world.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purge_of_the_Red_Army_in_1941
The Red Army was in absolutely no shape to do any sort of coup.
I noticed that Finland was not on the list. Many of Hitler’s forces struck the USSR from Finland and Great Britain declared war on Finland at that time.
Sweden was neutral yet they allowed German troops to use their railway to get to Norway.
If you think about the circumstances in Europe at the time, allying with the Germans may not have been such a bad idea if you were a Eastern European nation. You were pretty much stuck between choosing the USSR or Nazi Germany conquering you at some point, or allying with one of them. Hell, at one point in British Palestine, members of the Lehi floated the idea of allying with Germany to drive the British out.
If Hitler had left it to hid generals Germany absolutely would have destroyed Russia.
The Nazis were focused on France first, then the UK and then the Soviets.
There would have been no UK left to supply if we had waited for them to turn their attentions elsewhere.
I understand perfectly well WHY the Finns allied with the Germans. I just find it amusing that it is never mentioned, since Finns are “good guys,” and good guys don’t ally with Nazis.
Of course, we were perfectly happy to ally with commies, and were right to do so, under the circumstances.
I don't think so.
The Soviets had the USA as an unlimited source of raw materials, petroleum, ammunition, tanks, aircraft, trucks, foodstuffs, etc.
It would be impossible to defeat the USSR.
At the time, the U.S. not having initiated the attack on Japan probably wasn't making the rounds in Berlin.
It is all Tojo’s Fault!
LOL. Tojo Bush.
I knew it.
I knew it, I knew it, I KNEW it.
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