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Now Obama wants your 401(k): Treasury, Labor on path to nationalize retirement
WND ^ | November 25, 2012 | Jerome R. Corsi

Posted on 11/27/2012 11:17:14 AM PST by Perseverando

NEW YORK – Two years ago, as WND reported, the Obama administration was proceeding with a novel way to finance trillion-dollar budget deficits by forcing IRA and 401(k) holders to buy Treasury bonds by mandating the placement of government-structured annuities in their retirement accounts.

Remarkably, those financial professionals specializing in private retirement savings and the U.S. citizens investing in private retirement plans now face the possibility the Obama administration and its allies on the political left will impose rules and regulations that effectively abolish the private retirement savings and investment markets.

Recent evidence suggests government officials continue to eye the multi-trillion dollar private retirement savings market, including IRAs and 401(k) plans, eyeing the opportunity to redistribute private retirement savings to less affluent Americans and to force the retirement savings out of the private market and into government-controlled programs investing in government-issued debt.

Government takeover?

An Investment Company Institute study published this month found that U.S. retirement assets totaled $18.5 trillion at the end of the second quarter 2012, of which 3.5 trillion was in IRAs and $5.1 trillion was in 401(k) plans.

Since 2010, the U.S. Treasury Department and the Department of Labor have been holding combined hearings on various plans designed to introduce government-mandated retirement plans and investment options, including government annuities invested primarily in U.S. Treasury debt, into the private retirement savings market.

“This hearing was set up to explore why Americans are not saving as much for their retirement as they could,” explained National Seniors Council National Director Robert Crone, describing a recent Treasury-Labor hearing held in the Labor Department’s main auditorium.

“However it is clear that his is just the first step toward a government takeover. It feels like the beginning of the debate over health care and we all know how that ended up.”

(Excerpt) Read more at wnd.com ...


TOPICS: Conspiracy
KEYWORDS: 401k; cw2; fiscalcliff; ira; retirement; retirementusa
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1 posted on 11/27/2012 11:17:22 AM PST by Perseverando
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To: Perseverando

Get your money out - NOW! Get out! Get out! Get out!

Pay the tax penalty and buy hard assets. If you can’t roll around naked on your assets, the government has an easy task seizing them because it is likely all in a bank, credit union, or brokerage.


2 posted on 11/27/2012 11:22:18 AM PST by SatinDoll (NATURAL BORN CITZEN: BORN IN THE USA OF CITIZEN PARENTS.)
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To: Perseverando

My 401K is as much mine as were it in my pocket, in my home safe or stuffed in my mattress.

I will treat any attempt to take it as I would a thief breaking down my door in the middle of the night.

WITH DEADLY FORCE!


3 posted on 11/27/2012 11:23:04 AM PST by OSHA (One despises and wants to destroy the United States, the other is a dead terrorist.)
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To: Perseverando

if they try this, DC should be burned to the ground


4 posted on 11/27/2012 11:23:52 AM PST by wny
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To: OSHA

My matress wasn’t always lumpy.


5 posted on 11/27/2012 11:24:25 AM PST by Sacajaweau
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To: OSHA

The Feds will respond in kind.

And as they say, you can’t take it with you serf.


6 posted on 11/27/2012 11:24:51 AM PST by TheDon (In 2012, American voters chose European style big gov't.)
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To: SatinDoll

I hope I can hold out until a jan/feb layoff, then I’m out. Despise is the strongest word I can use with these people. If they try this, it’s going to make the healthcare bill look like the scout picnic it was.


7 posted on 11/27/2012 11:25:49 AM PST by SueRae (It isn't over. In God We Trust.)
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To: Perseverando

LOL....

The takings clause don’t mean shit to these rotten tomatoes.

Neither does the 5th, 4th and 10 amendments.


8 posted on 11/27/2012 11:26:21 AM PST by Vendome (Don't take life so seriously, you won't live through it anyway)
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To: Perseverando

When China has had enough and the money trough dries up, the 401(k) and other retirement accounts will be the next source to be sucked dry. The money will all be immediately spent and you will get in return nice IOU’s to be redeemed by your grandchildren with their taxes, somewhere on down the road. Of course, they are telling your grandchildren not to worry, that the health care system will solve that problem for them.


9 posted on 11/27/2012 11:26:25 AM PST by NonValueAdded (Happy 10th FR birthday to meeeeeeeeee)
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To: Perseverando

If they want it, they’ll take it. Simple as that.

To Obama and his people, if you have a 401k, you shouldn’t have it, because his peeps don’t have one. Time to spread the wealth around.

Where are the folks who said Obama was the same as Romney?


10 posted on 11/27/2012 11:26:53 AM PST by brownsfan (Behold, the power of government cheese.)
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To: wny

It should be burned to they ground....period..............


11 posted on 11/27/2012 11:28:17 AM PST by Red Badger (Lincoln freed the slaves. Obama just got them ALL back......................)
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To: Perseverando

Simple...the government steals your retirement funds and gives you an IOU backed by soon to be worthless government debt. If this passes watch the Dow to drop below 5,000 and capital for business expansion to dry up. Carl Marx could not have thought of a better idea to bring down capitalism.


12 posted on 11/27/2012 11:29:26 AM PST by The Great RJ
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To: Perseverando

I would think that in this economy a job would not be able to be had TO retire


13 posted on 11/27/2012 11:29:32 AM PST by therightliveswithus
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To: Perseverando

Simple...the government steals your retirement funds and gives you an IOU backed by soon to be worthless government debt. If this passes watch the Dow to drop below 5,000 and capital for business expansion to dry up. Carl Marx could not have thought of a better idea to bring down capitalism.


14 posted on 11/27/2012 11:29:41 AM PST by The Great RJ
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To: Perseverando

Hmmm... rhetorical question -

what disparate effect would this have on specific demographics...

and what demographic(s) would NOT be affected at all by a confiscation of retirement savings...


15 posted on 11/27/2012 11:29:55 AM PST by MrB (The difference between a Humanist and a Satanist - the latter admits whom he's working for)
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To: Perseverando
“This hearing was set up to explore why Americans are not saving as much for their retirement as they could,” explained National Seniors Council National Director Robert Crone, describing a recent Treasury-Labor hearing held in the Labor Department’s main auditorium.

Why? WHY? Overtaxation? Printing-induced inflation? Government mandated "health"care? Rampant wasteful government spending like Treasury-Labor hearings that are false faces for discussions about further ways to torment, control and ruin the average American who would like to keep what he earns?

Let me guess. The IRS will be in charge of enforcing this too. "Well, Mr. American, we don't think your health care plan is good enough. We're moving you to a costlier plan (which will offer nothing more than what you're currently paying for). And we don't think you've saved enough for retirement. So, we are directing you to spend $x on your health plan and $x on your retirement plan. And be sure to have your quarterly taxes in on time. We'd hate to impose penalties. Actually, we'd love to impose penalties. So be late if you want. We know where you live. 254 Skid Row, the cardboard box with the green beach towel hanging on one flap for a doorway."
16 posted on 11/27/2012 11:30:04 AM PST by LostInBayport (When there are more people riding in the cart than there are pulling it, the cart stops moving...)
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To: OSHA

An understandable sentiment, but do bear in mind that your 401k exists as one’s and zero’s floating around in the electronic ether.

Realistically, it would take the IRS, or whomever, as long to seize it as it took me to type this reply and hit “Post”. They’ll do it one fine day at 0315 in the morning or something like that. Just hit, “Enter” and bada-bing! All your 401k belong to Uncle Sam.

How are you going to use deadly force against an electronic data transmission?


17 posted on 11/27/2012 11:30:33 AM PST by AnAmericanAbroad (It's all bread and circuses for the future prey of the Morlocks.)
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To: NonValueAdded
The money will all be immediately spent and you will get in return nice IOU’s to be redeemed by your grandchildren with their taxes,

"That's as good as money sir, those are IOU's."

18 posted on 11/27/2012 11:31:55 AM PST by dfwgator
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To: Perseverando

It’s private property, isn’t it?


19 posted on 11/27/2012 11:33:39 AM PST by Dr. Pritchett
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To: Perseverando
When you start to see and hear MSM stories leading with stories about "How Much Are 401(k)s Costing Taxpayers?" and stories of how "Company 401(k) Matches Benefit More Affluent Workers," you'll know something will be in the works.

Yes, those that contribute to 401k plans avoid up-front taxes, but they have more to tax later on, when they begin to make withdrawals from their accounts. Taxpayers should be thanking those responsible enough to stockpile savings in this manner. They'll be less drags on the system later on in life.

Furthermore, just as with tax cuts, tax avoidance on a 401(k) contribution is not a "cost" to taxpayers. A non-401(k) saver is not paying anything for me; the government is forgoing some immediate revenue. It's a trade-off, a very justifiable one, and should be argued as such.

20 posted on 11/27/2012 11:33:46 AM PST by Lou L (Health "insurance" is NOT the same as health "care")
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To: LostInBayport

You left out the main “why” reason why “Americans” (certain ones at least) are not saving enough for their retirement -

IRRESPONSIBILITY.


21 posted on 11/27/2012 11:34:32 AM PST by MrB (The difference between a Humanist and a Satanist - the latter admits whom he's working for)
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To: AnAmericanAbroad

Against?
Probably not.

After?
Probably.


22 posted on 11/27/2012 11:35:46 AM PST by MrB (The difference between a Humanist and a Satanist - the latter admits whom he's working for)
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To: Perseverando

I’m baaaaaaack!

Predicting the government conversion of 401(k)s since January 2009!


23 posted on 11/27/2012 11:36:02 AM PST by Cletus.D.Yokel (Bread and Circuses; Everyone to the Coliseum!)
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To: SatinDoll

“less affluent Americans”? That would be me. So, all of you on here who have 401ks or IRAs, just give me your money now and let’s keep the government out of it. I hope people see the sarcasm.

But, here are a few questions:

If the government takes your IRAs and 401ks, do you have to pay all of the early withdrawal fees?

As I understand it, if everyone tried to cash in, OR the government tried to take it, the money’s not there.


24 posted on 11/27/2012 11:37:04 AM PST by Terry Mross (I haven't watched the news since the election. Someone ping me if anything big happens.)
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To: Dr. Pritchett

:: It’s private property, isn’t it? ::

I don’t care who you are. THAT, right there, is FUNNY!


25 posted on 11/27/2012 11:37:35 AM PST by Cletus.D.Yokel (Bread and Circuses; Everyone to the Coliseum!)
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To: MrB

Fair enough.


26 posted on 11/27/2012 11:39:28 AM PST by AnAmericanAbroad (It's all bread and circuses for the future prey of the Morlocks.)
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To: MrB

Not enough left after taxes and expenses.


27 posted on 11/27/2012 11:39:29 AM PST by reg45 (Barack 0bama: Implementing class warfare by having no class.)
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To: Vendome
The takings clause don’t mean shit to these rotten tomatoes. Neither does the 5th, 4th and 10 amendments.

In that case, we're going to have to reintroduce them to the 2nd.

28 posted on 11/27/2012 11:40:04 AM PST by andy58-in-nh (Cogito, ergo armatum sum.)
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To: MrB

Duly noted. When I think of the average American, I mistakenly still think of the “reasonable person”, even though I was shown on the 6th of this month that the “reasonable person” was long ago stomped to death by a horde of Black Friday shoppers wielding EBT cards and Obamaphones.


29 posted on 11/27/2012 11:41:25 AM PST by LostInBayport (When there are more people riding in the cart than there are pulling it, the cart stops moving...)
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To: Dr. Pritchett

Private Property? The government has shown that they can unilaterally sieze that long ago. See Kilo vs State of Connecticut.


30 posted on 11/27/2012 11:41:34 AM PST by fuente
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To: Dr. Pritchett
Private Property? The government has shown that they can unilaterally sieze that long ago. See Kilo vs State of Connecticut.
31 posted on 11/27/2012 11:42:34 AM PST by fuente
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To: Perseverando

if you can be forced to buy obama brand healthcare, you can be forced to buy worthless bonds.


32 posted on 11/27/2012 11:44:29 AM PST by longtermmemmory (VOTE! http://www.senate.gov and http://www.house.gov)
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To: Perseverando

They want to roll it all into one big pile to hide the massive shortfalls in union pension funds.


33 posted on 11/27/2012 11:45:53 AM PST by Buckeye McFrog
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To: SatinDoll

“Get your money out - NOW! Get out! Get out! Get out!”

My company has a pretty hefty match so I will continue to take advantage of that. What folks close to retirement can do if they don’t want to liquidate their 401k is move much of it to a self-directed IRA. You would have more control. You can also invest much of it in munipal bonds and non-taxable instruments to help starve the bastards of taxes. Small step but every bit helps.


34 posted on 11/27/2012 11:48:01 AM PST by plain talk
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To: MrB

these are reparations!

those kept down by “the man” are ENTITLED. The need obama phones, free xboxes, free booze, free cable, free edukashun, free cars, free bus passes, etc.

GHWBush created the mess.


35 posted on 11/27/2012 11:48:02 AM PST by longtermmemmory (VOTE! http://www.senate.gov and http://www.house.gov)
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To: Sacajaweau
My matress wasn’t always lumpy.

I had a great aunt who lost every penny she and her husband had during the Depression. Their bank never re-opened after FDR's bank holiday. When she passed away in the 80's....well, let's just say her mattress was VERY WELL STUFFED!


36 posted on 11/27/2012 11:48:25 AM PST by Buckeye McFrog
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To: Perseverando

IIRC, BJ Clinton tried this during his admin too.


37 posted on 11/27/2012 11:48:44 AM PST by Arrowhead1952 (0 bummer inherited a worse economy in 2012 than he did in 2008.)
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To: Terry Mross
“...the money's not there.”

There is a growing concern that brokerages and banks are not maintaining enough money on hand to pay depositors desiring to ‘cash out’.

My family cashed in the last IRA money in August 2008, just before the stock market tanked. We saw it coming way back then, and it wasn't just about the ghastly communists in the Obama Administration either, though they have certainly made things worse all around. Our monetary system is in free-fall.

We also cashed out on a large insurance policy this past January 2012. Insurance companies have usually invested conservatively in commercial real estate. Commercial real estate has generally been considered a ‘safe’ investment, but not right now as real property values have crashed into a fiscal basement. So, we cashed in then just in case the company went bankrupt. We took the tax hit and paid off the mortgage and car loan.

I am no longer trusting of banks or any institution holding deposits and am working towards getting off the grid. For me this is easier than for most folks as I have no dependents.

38 posted on 11/27/2012 11:49:59 AM PST by SatinDoll (NATURAL BORN CITZEN: BORN IN THE USA OF CITIZEN PARENTS.)
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To: Terry Mross
do you have to pay all of the early withdrawal fees?

Don't be silly. "Early withdrawal fees" aren't there because 401k plans don't like the idea of early withdrawals--the early withdrawal fees are part of the tax code...in other words, the law.

If they can change the law to sieze our savings, they can sure as hell change the law about withdrawal fees.

39 posted on 11/27/2012 11:50:22 AM PST by Lou L (Health "insurance" is NOT the same as health "care")
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To: longtermmemmory

I think you got it.

0bama is implementing de facto reparations, wealth transfers from “Euro-Americans” to “Afro-Americans”.

Every policy of his has this as its underlying intent.


40 posted on 11/27/2012 11:53:37 AM PST by MrB (The difference between a Humanist and a Satanist - the latter admits whom he's working for)
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To: Perseverando
I stopped contributing shortly after bammey took office....not that I've saved much otherwise...but at least he'll have less to steal...

my husband's smallish account...we're thinking of taking some out to help pay off his new shop...

41 posted on 11/27/2012 12:01:03 PM PST by cherry
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To: fuente
See Kilo vs State of Connecticut.

The worst decision by the USSC in my lifetime, not withholding Roe vs Wade.

FMCDH(BITS)

42 posted on 11/27/2012 12:04:50 PM PST by nothingnew (I fear for my Republic due to marxist influence in our government. Open eyes/see)
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To: OSHA

Bingo! Civility only exists in this country because we choose to be civil. The government doesn’t have the personnel numbers to suppress us and would even experience mass defection within those ranks if asked to bring violence on fellow citizens. Direct wealth confiscation as described will be an act of war on the free people of this nation and there will be riots, but it’s not private businesses that will be burned to the ground.


43 posted on 11/27/2012 12:06:43 PM PST by Niteranger68 (When you play all-or-nothing, be prepared to get nothing...maybe even less.)
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To: SatinDoll

> “My family cashed in the last IRA money in August 2008, just before the stock market tanked.”

The stock market is now higher than it was in August 2008.


44 posted on 11/27/2012 12:07:16 PM PST by FewsOrange
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To: Perseverando

I wont hold my breath on this happening.


45 posted on 11/27/2012 12:14:06 PM PST by sickoflibs (Has Bohner caved to Obama again yet?)
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To: OSHA
My 401K is as much mine as were it in my pocket, in my home safe or stuffed in my mattress. I will treat any attempt to take it as I would a thief breaking down my door in the middle of the night. WITH DEADLY FORCE!

Looks good on paper, but it might not be very satisfying to shoot the piece of paper that notifies you that an electronic transfer has taken place...those pieces of paper you have that indicate what's yours will be useless "forgeries" when Uncle Sugar determines that there is no record that you ever owned it.

46 posted on 11/27/2012 12:14:56 PM PST by trebb (Allies no longer trust us. Enemies no longer fear us.)
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To: wny; Jack Black; Travis McGee

Re: if they try this, DC should be burned to the ground

I suppose this could be the tipping point in America for some. And the MSM wonders why there is interest in secession.

Let’s face it politicians have expensive hobbies, such as buying votes (funding their lengthy political careers with the tax payers monies.)

Will this be the breaking point for cw2?


47 posted on 11/27/2012 12:16:37 PM PST by Perseverando (Gun control? It's the OBOTS who are filling up prisons for violent crimes, not the Tea Party.)
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To: trebb
Looks good on paper, but it might not be very satisfying to shoot the piece of paper that notifies you that an electronic transfer has taken place...those pieces of paper you have that indicate what's yours will be useless "forgeries" when Uncle Sugar determines that there is no record that you ever owned it.

For that matter, the only thing that "proves" you own your land and the house you live in is a piece of paper down at the county clerk's office. If they can erase your ownership of a 401K, they can erase a deed.

48 posted on 11/27/2012 12:18:38 PM PST by abb ("What ISN'T in the news is often more important than what IS." Ed Biersmith, 1942 -)
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To: NonValueAdded
When China has had enough and the money trough dries up . . .

That's already happened. The so-called "Quantitative Easements" are the Federal Reserve "declaring" that the crony banks have bigger balances - as long as they use it to finance federal debt.

This is like me sending you an e-mail that says you have an extra million dollars in your account, then you sending me an e-mail saying that you want to use the million dollars that is in your account to buy US debt. So I sell you some bonds for a million dollars and use the money to finance union buyouts or pay government bureaucrats.

At this time, the US, through the Federal Reserve and the associated crony banks, "owns" something like 65% of the $16T debt we always hear about. The Chinese quit being our primary lender in 2009.

In the meantime, the total supply of "dollars" (most of which were never printed, but only exist in account ledgers) has increased by 25% since 2009 - and with more dollars to spend on fewer goods, you get inflation.

The only reason we don't have runaway inflation is because businesses are holding on to their own cash waiting to see what happens - even though they know they're losing actual value from their savings every day.

And so are we - whether they explicitly steal it through seizing 401Ks or not.

One of these days, businesses are going to let loose of the money they're sitting on and inflation will go crazy. Which suits the Dims just fine. It will mean those who have saved money are hosed - their (our) savings will only buy a loaf of bread a month. We will no longer be any better off than those who have never saved a dime.
49 posted on 11/27/2012 12:18:54 PM PST by Phlyer
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To: Perseverando

More accurately, the 3rd Revolutionary War for Independence.

RW 1, 1776, win
RW 2, 1863, loss
RW 3, 2014, tie breaker


50 posted on 11/27/2012 12:21:53 PM PST by MrB (The difference between a Humanist and a Satanist - the latter admits whom he's working for)
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