Josh Lang's Photos of the Fuddy Crash Are Not the Same Plane

Butterdezillion's Blog ^ | 2-23-14 | Butterdezillion

[butterdezillion]

The photos of the Loretta Fuddy Cessna crash that Josh Lang provided to the media? They weren't of the same plane. The plane that crashed with Fuddy in it had a window between the door and the tail; Lang's photos don't. (I've got photos at my blog and in the first post I'll post them so you can compare the 2 planes)

Lang apparently had photos of a DIFFERENT plane ditching in the water and gave them to the media, claiming they were of this crash, and apparently the media didn't check out the genuineness of the photos...

Now why would Lang do that? Why would he post images of the area with no passengers or anything else in the water ANYWHERE, rather than taking photos of what was actually there and giving those to the media?

[holden]

"the tail would have had to get very, very heavy"

There indeed might have been air trapped in the tail section that was leaking out as the weight of the fore section was inexorably bringing about the overall sinking. As the water increasingly invaded the tail, it would naturally be dragged lower into the water. The only question is how long. I'd say possibly several minutes to fifteen minutes.

I think the aerial view is deceptive. I think there is significantly more aircraft under water in the Josh Lang photo than the Fuddy-by-the-door, Puentes image(s). Some time before the Lang photo was taken, no one would've seen it advantageous to stay with the sinking ship, and thus abandoned it. All that seems quite reasonable to me and be devoid of foul play.

I'm further convinced that Lang provided photo(s) of the same aircraft sinking. The evidence for that is quite overwhelming without any significant counter-evidence.

HF

[Uncle Chip]

Most of all, the ID numbers on the tails are different.

Are they really???

Take a close look at the last two letters on the side of the tail section -- the M and the A -- and tell me if you don't see the faint outline of those two letters there in the other picture as well.

Try the pictures at post #21

The M and the A are there -- not clearly -- but they are there.

[butterdezillion]

BTW, who is that face behind Fuddy’s life jacket there?

[rodguy911]

Is it confirmed that the numbers on both planes are different? Can we put them side by side in one photo and show what is what?

[speedbird57]

Suggestion: print out both photos and *measure* the distances between the different features on the airframe. Express those distances as proportions or percentages of other distances. For example, in one photo the distance from the trailing edge of the right wing to the back edge of the last window is x percent of the distance from the trailing edge of the right wing to the leading edge of the horizontal stabilizer , so we should either see a window in that distance, or not, when we look at the other photo.

Similar logic applies to comparing the width of the tail to the distance from the right wing trailing edge to the horizontal stabiliser leading edge. The tail width doesn’t change in the B model, but the airfame is stretched fore and aft of the wing - so those distances are different in the a vs. B model.

http://www.cessna.com/caravan

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cessna_208_Caravan
“208B Grand Caravan
A 4 feet (1.2 m) stretch of the Caravan I. The 208B features a more powerful PT6A-114A engine.”

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http://www.cessna.com/~/media/Files/caravan/super_cargomaster/grandcaravan_pim.ashx

pages 6-28- 6-34

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https://www.aopa.org/Pilot-Resources/Aircraft-Ownership/Aircraft-Fact-Sheets/Cessna-208B-Grand-Caravan.aspx

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Serial Number 208B1002 Status Valid
Manufacturer Name CESSNA Certificate Issue Date 08/13/2008
Model 208B

FAA REGISTRY
N-Number Inquiry Results
N687MA is Assigned
Data Updated each Federal Working Day at Midnight
http://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinquiry/nnum_inquiry.aspx

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FedEx liked the Cargomaster so much that the company then ordered a derivative with higher load capacity, the “Model 208B Super Cargomaster”, which featured a 1.22 meter (4 foot) fuselage stretch, obtained by inserting plugs fore and aft of the wing,

http://www.airvectors.net/avcvan.html

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http://www.aero-news.net/images/content/general/2014/Hawaii-Crash-Capture-YouTube-0114a.JPG

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http://www.baaa-acro.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/YV1183-1.jpg

http://www.baaa-acro.com/2009/archives/crash-of-a-cessna-208b-grand-caravan-off-la-tortuga/

http://www.baaa-acro.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/YV1183-2.jpg

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http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/plane-crashes-hawaii-killing-health-director-released-obama-birth-cert-article-1.1572282

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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2536931/New-footage-shows-harrowing-moment-small-plane-crashed-Hawaii-killed-woman-published-President-Obamas-birth-certificate.html

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http://www.zerosixright.com/molokai-hawaii/

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One thing I wonder about : in lang’s picture, there is a foot wide shadow across the top of the left wing. What is causing the shadow?

[speedbird57]

“The other shadow on the left wing is cast by the rudder.”

-PJ

Then why do the two shadows point in two different directions? Shouldn’t they be parallel if they are cast by the same light source?

And compare the width of the shadow of the door to the width of the shadow on the left wing. the vertical tail is much wider than the door, so it should cast a wider shadow, but the shadow on the left wing is the same width as the shadow of the door on the cabin top.

Plus, if you draw lines back from the left wing shadow, they don’t intersect the tail edges. At all.

the shadow on the left wing, whatever its cause, is not of the tail.

[cynwoody]

Puentes is quite a curious character to have TWO GoPro cameras at the ready, one conveniently on a staff. Who could've done planning any better than that? Then, how he got the one who was "killed" in the lens for perhaps crucial moments was interesting.

Why buy a GoPro if you aren't going to use it? Using video cameras is normal behavior.

For instance, a couple of years ago, a guy kayaking in Florida videoed his rescue of a traumatized dog who swam up to his boat. Video cameras are small and cheap. So, he figured, why not video all his kayak trips?

In Russia, traffic conditions and laws are so chaotic that folks routinely run cameras in their cars all the time, just in case. Check 'em out.

[PLMerite]

“Well sweetie you seem to be looking at something completely different. Are you sure read the captioning correctly”

The images taken by the survivor at water-level and the images from the air are of the same aircraft. The passenger door on the starboard rear of the fuselage are open in both sets. The perspectives, sun angles and settling of the aircraft in the water make it less than obvious to the untrained eye, but it is what it is.

I do have a little experience with photography, photo interpretation and imagery.

[Uncle Chip]

Here is Puentes' image.

But that is not the same Puente photo that you showed earlier. This Puente post would have been taken later after the earlier one you posted and shows the plane at a later time when it is lower in the water.

[Uncle Chip]

Post #182

[butterdezillion]

Not too long ago I messed up on some measurements and came to a faulty conclusion as a result, so I’m a little gunshy of that right now (and swamped with other stuff too) but that sounds like a wonderful idea for somebody with the right skills to do it. Is that something you could do? =)

[little jeremiah]

I wasn’t really “asking” you...it just seemed that if I were flying over a downed plane I would certainly take photos of the survivors, not just the plane.

So assuming he took the photos of the plane, I wonder where the photos of the people are.

[butterdezillion]

Ho many people do you know who even have 2 GoPro’s, much less have them with them and already videotaping passengers with one of them when the plane’s warning horn goes off? How many people carry waterproof mouthpieces with them in their armpack so they can attach the mouthpiece to their life jacket once they’ve got it on?

[WhiskeyX]

“odd considering it was pulled up and looked like a complete wreck and almost unrecognizable.”

There was nothing “odd” about it whatsoever, when you recognize the aircraft was being pounded to pieces on the underwater rocks by the waves and currents of the sea in the offshore location.

[GBA]

FRom this website: http://www.flugzeuginfo.net/acdata_php/acdata_208_en.php

Cessna Caravan

Cessna Grand Caravan

[butterdezillion]

Is there any way you could copy the plane image into Paint or some other program and put in lines and captions to show what you mean? I can freepmail you my email address if you’d need me to post it online so it can be posted here at FR using the URL. Let me know if you’d like me to do that.

I’ve got so much information I’m processing right now that I need things really simple to see.

[WhiskeyX]

GoPro’s were invented by surfers and for surfers to use in the first place, so it is actually very common for GoPro users. The Hawaiian waters are full of competition kayakers, swimmers, surfers, and others interested in water sports and fishing who have the income and the adventurism to use these GoPro camera systems.

[cynwoody]

Ho many people do you know who even have 2 GoPro’s, much less have them with them and already videotaping passengers with one of them when the plane’s warning horn goes off?

You do realize that point damages your case, don't you?

Killers don't generally video their deeds (unless they are the Mossad and need training material).

[machogirl]

that’s not the really odd part, that they are using the same tail number flying a plane up in Alaska. Different plane that even if legal, would anyone really want to use the SAme tail number associated with a crash and a death?

[norwaypinesavage]

Flight Aware shows a flight for tail number N687MA on Dec. 10 from Honolulu airport to Kalaeloa airport. Both airports are on Oahu, though the airplane flew out over the ocean a bit as if on a check flight. The airplane is a single engine Cessna Caravan.

The next flight for N687MA is on January 5 from Sleetmute to Anchorage, and it is a twin. My Flight Aware account is good for four months of history so presumably there no other flights with that tail number in the last four months Anyone can sign up for this for free at flightaware.com.

Both airplanes are shown to be owned by LEIS AIR LLC · HONOLULU HI. It would seem very surprising to me to reuse a tail number a few days after a fatal crash.