Posted on 09/17/2014 6:23:14 AM PDT by WXRGina
Law and Gospel have differences.
In the OT, the Law was intended to drive God’s people to repentance and to purify the people he chose to bring forth His messiah. Governments over the Hebrews, both good and bad,were established for specific purposes.
Once the messiah was brought forth, the Gospel reigned and civil/political government was given to The Church to support the Gospel.
If a government does not support the Christian liberty found in the Gospel, it is not legitimately given by God...it is legitimate in that it is allowed to exist according to the tolerance of The Church.
All you had to talk about after that was sex. As the saying goes if you want to lose friends and alienate people talk about politics [check], religion [check], and sex.
Very interesting, and one of several cross currents we get caught up in regarding service to God / service to country.
BTW, I am 100% in your camp on this. But it does remind me of Ann Coulter’s rant against missionaries abroad, especially Africa. Here she is guilty of the same thing “barefoot” was guilty of, only in reverse. Coulter derided those who served God outside of the country. That is just as bad as those Christians like barefoot who criticized you, and often criticize those in the political debate.
And then there’s the “social issues” only Christians, many on FR, who deride those who like to focus on liberty and taxes and regulations as “worshipping mammon over God” - which is more witchcraft.
Anyway, thanks for posting.
I’ll answer with a question...what when politics treads all over theological issues? It’s happening all the time, accelerating as our society becomes more secular - which has no answer to the human condition and the consequences to an individual and society for poor behavior (it can’t even define “poor behavior”).
This is why liberals get it wrong when they think that religion and politics have nothing to do with each other. Of course they do, you can’t separate the underlying system of ethics that drives the types of laws we write from the reason for having that ethics system in the first place, which is Judeo-Christian beliefs and those religions saturating our society (historically).
This is why Sharia law is completely incompatible with Judeo-Christian ethics (and consequently our laws). Sharia provides a different ethics system which results in a different concept of “good vs bad”. These are malleable terms - depending on ethics. My point: Jihadi’s think they’re doing “good”. To me this is the definition of evil...fooling good men to do bad things in the name of good. So depending on your basis of an ethics system, the laws that are written and the individual rights recognized will be wildly different.
If we do not fight within the political arena, an arena that treads all over theological issues, then our society will only move further and further from the example of Christ.
The issue is whether winning converts to Christ (from all political spectra) is more important than winning political converts to conservative causes or standing up for those (like the unborn) who need protection.
It’s a tough call and reasoned minds can differ. I think there is room for both. My church made a conscious effort to tone down the politics a few years ago and I now see some Obama stickers in the parking lot and a more diverse group in the pews.
The question is whether those people are being transformed by the Holy Spirit and will eventually come over politically or will they try to turn the church into another gay-affirming abortion-loving liberal church. I’ve known many of our elders for years and I don’t think they would let the latter happen. Sometimes God asks you to step out in faith and let Him do the soul-changing.
On the other hand, the church still supports Crisis Pregnancy Centers and other ministries that are doing the work of a conservative outreach. They just aren’t attaching a GOP brand name to it.
Bless your efforts, Gina. Just know the Lord sometimes converts quietly. Otherwise, I would have no hope this November.
It does sound like someone has a problem with self-righteousness. While I do think that Christians can make politics an idol, there is a lot of ground between that position and no political involvement. As Christians, we recognize that the solution to the world's problems is the Gospel of Jesus Christ but that doesn't prevent us from being involved in earthly politics.
How do you deal with people with inflated senses of righteousness? If you figure it out, let me know. I have had a couple of such encounters and they have not ended particularly well. I have learned one lesson, though. If you learn of a Christian who used to be friends with lots of people - look out - he or she probably someone to avoid.
And people forget that the U.S. is unique in that it is supposed to be a “government of and by the people”. I do not serve an emperor.
YES!
Another factor to consider is the actual wording of Romans 13. Verse 3, for instance, declares that rulers are not a terror to good works but to evil works. So where does the government stand when it IS a terror to good works, as ours is becoming? And, from verse 4, where does the government stand when it executes wrath upon him that does GOOD, as ours is becoming?
And lest we forget, Christ and most of the disciples were executed for opposing their governments. And, of course, a multitude of martyrs faced the same fate, because when they were forced to choose between obedience to God and obedience to man, they obeyed God.
Our First Amendment (combined with our Second Amendment) is a great blessing, and is also a critical factor to consider. When our government tries to unconstitutionally silence us, or limit our religious freedom, or limit our right to keep and bear arms, they’re acting criminally, and we’re under no obligation to obey criminals. They’re tyrannically violating the supreme law of our land. That’s the great wisdom of our Founders, that they devised our most foundational law thusly, giving us both the intellectual and physical means to oppose criminals and tyrants.
I live in the Tacoma area and there are tons of those liberal Christians living here. They are arrogant and extremely annoying people to deal with.
Thank you, Mr. Wright.
Thank you, OrangeHoof.
but I would ax....are they liberal, or are they Christian?
The two do not meld.
True, and I would add this: Jesus uses "the body of Christ" as an analogy on purpose. A body has many organs and many limbs, and they ALL HAVE DIFFERENT functions within the body. Some are called to politics in some form or fashion, and some are not. Dittos with foreign missions. Dittos with being a pastor. Anyone who says any differently is just wrong.
I can no more separate my spiritual life from my political life. I am either right or wrong in my beliefs. My soul tells me I am right. It is who I am.
Just because people don’t like what I think or believe, that gives them no right to prevent me from thinking or talking about my walk with Christ.
I do my very best to follow the Ten Commandments, in particular the 2nd; Love your neighbor as yourself. I try to treat everyone with kindness and respect. For the life of me, what is threatening about that?
The politicians of Jerusalem did not like what Christ was teaching or the fact that he healed the sick. Or the fact that he was taking their spotlight (think NY Dem senator).
One of my favorite people in the New Testament is Stephen. When Stephen stood by his belief in Christ as the Savior and because he would not deny his beliefs, the religious oligarchy tried and convicted him and took it on themselves to stone him to death. I can think of several of our political leaders who would jump at the chance to grab a hand full of stones and chunk away at a group of outspoken Christians. But there is hope; The greatest writer of the New Testament, Paul, was one of the Jewish leaders who was there when Stephen was stoned. Then he met Jesus on the Damascus Road. His life was forever changed. As is ours from the Scriptures he wrote in the New Testament.
I hope and pray that I would have the faith and courage of Stephen (The book of Acts chapters 6 thru 22). If I am ever confronted with such a honor as to be able die for my Savior, Jesus.
And I will never stop talking about my beliefs or my Savior.
One that I know well was my child's teacher at a so called Christian school. Her husband was a pastor at some other church.
My daughter once said something along the lines of, "the pure of heart will see the face of God". The teacher hissed back aloud, "Where is that written?". The Teacher often did this to try and make my daughter look bad in front of other students. The next day, my daughter came back to class with the Bible verse she had copied down.( Matthew 5:1-12 )
The teacher looked at the paper and didn't acknowledge to the class what my daughter brought in. She just took the paper and told her to go sit down.
This was the same teacher who said Palin shouldn't speak because she makes dumb comments like, " I can see Russia from my house".
Answer? Liberal, period.
I mean ultimately that’s between her and God, and I would never pretend to know for sure - but the sour fruit is the sour fruit.
There are a lot of Christian liberals who are liberal because they are ashamed of having had abortions. Bring that up, and it’ll shut ‘em up fast.
This can go either way,
Lots of Dems who call themselves Christians, even go to church, vote Dem and seem to believe that ‘helping the poor’ means voting to raise taxes on the wealthy to pay for others abortions is Christian .
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