Posted on 11/14/2014 5:10:41 AM PST by The Friend
Dear Freerepublicans,
I came across your great Free Republic website about four years ago when I was googling the internet looking for information that can help us deciding on a formal name for our newly born daughter. Fourteenth November is celebrated as children’s day in India. 150 years ago, India’s first prime minister was born this day. Today, let me extend a long overdue ‘Thank You’ to this useful website and its inspiring members for the help that I received without you not even knowing about it.
In the West, every formal name has an associated predictable child hood name. For example, one can assume that childhood name for Benjamin (Franklin) can be Ben (I wonder why the clock in London is called Big Ben) and for Steven (Paul Jobs) Steve. And Geo could be a common short name for George (Washington and Walker Bush).
In India, everyone has a childhood name which is totally unconnected from his/her formal name. Typically these names are short but have no dictionary meanings as these are terms of endearments. So, there is no way of guessing what did the parents of Narendra Damodardas Modi call him when he was a child. It could have been Bittu, Babloo, Bantu or anything else. And all others named Narendra may have entirely different childhood names.
Mostly, the first names are chosen based on what alphabets are determined by the Hindu priest/astrologer at the time of birth. These are based on date, time, location of birth. (So, an astrologer during a chat may ask DTL? Instead of ASL? !) For example, somebody born on 14 November 2014 at 1 am at Washington should have a name starting with ‘De’ (as in Da vid) or ‘Dai’ (as in Dei ty). For fun, you may check for yourself too at the following link. http://www.drikpanchang.com/utilities/horoscope/hindu-baby-name-calculator.html
For our daughter, we consulted an astrologer and got the answer right on the day when she was born. We gave her a short childhood name based on that. The name connoted to goddess of prosperity and wealth. And we thought we will find her the formal name after discussions. These discussions and searches continued for over a year. As there were not too many options that we liked based on the astrology, we decided to be more open. In any case, we will mostly call her by her short name. We shortlisted ten Sanskrit names starting with alphabet A. Modern Indian parents look for stylish names that are uncommon. But the options are still limited to Indian languages like Sanskrit. Various other factors like availability of internet domain name etc. were kept in mind.
When googling for these ten names, I was surprised to see that many of these have been accepted into other ancient languages too – like Japanese, Hebrew etc. For example, we liked ‘Akira’ but we found that it also is a name in Japanese language. In Sanskrit it means graceful but in Japanese it is a boy’s name. And there are a large number of deities in the Japanese system named after Indian ones. One of the oldest names of God found in Vedas (2000 B.C.) is Indra. Today, there are more temples dedicated to Indra in Japan than in India. So, the thing about Akira is understandable.
Free Republic Akula Another name we liked a lot was Akula, another name for Hindu goddess for wealth. And I think, while googling for Akula, I came across your Free Republic website. I studied a lot of comments by Freepers on the topics related to Akula. And I was astonished to note that Akula is the name of a ferocious sub marine. I could not understand why would Russia name it after an Indian goddess of wealth. Perhaps it has a meaning in the Russian language too. We did not want our daughter to be respected out of fear. Besides the ‘Yellow Submarine’, can there be anything common in a sub marine and a child? So, thank you www.freerepublic.com for helping us not to choose Akula. We had almost finalised it.
A friend is a brigadier level officer who designs submarines. From him I learnt that ships don’t die; they survive due to continuity of names. So, that’s a plus in sharing a name with a ship! As a school boy, I had joined the Naval Wing. I took pride in the way we saluted wearing the singlets. We used to say how gently we salute in Naval compared to Air and Army wings; so that we don’t rock the boat. The foot tapping in Army is the mightiest. At least that’s what I thought till I witnessed the Wagah border ceremony. I think the border guards score above Army in this respect!
An uncle is retiring soon after a long career in civil atomic reactor fire specialism. He has a deep interest in languages. He had told me once that the National Archive on Janpath has history of names of every village and city in India. I thought of visiting it. Do names of cities survive? I wonder what was Paris called 3000 years ago. Delhi was called Indra-prastha, after the Hindu god of rains. I soon dropped this idea.
The problem with Google is that it helps us to ‘search’ while what we actually want to do is to ‘seek’. Few years from now, it is hard to believe, there will not be a Google, at least in its present form. Google knows it and they, along with several others, are working against time to morph ‘search’ to ‘seek’. Search 2.0 cannot be seek. For example, the sixth generation fighter aircraft cannot be speced at by improving over the fifth.
I went to our paediatrician. He was the youngest student in medical school and we trust him a lot. He told us that medically speaking there is no implication of a name on child’s health, wellbeing and future. I think for self-esteem, a name that is liked by other people pleases a child.
Will the Bard ("A rose by any other name would smell as sweet") agree with the doctor? I don’t.
Chastened, we dropped this second criteria of alphabet A. We prepared another short list of meaningful, uncommon, names from major ancient languages and starting with any alphabet and having any four more alphabets. More than a year after she was born, we involved our daughter in the choice. We wrote down these five names on a separate chits of paper, rolled them independently, and put in a small box and made a rattle out of it. We helped her play with it and open it. She herself picked up a chit and chose her name. In a way, we were relieved to note that the name she chose is from Sanskrit and refers to a goddess of strength. There is a huge difference in respect accrued due to strength rather than fear.
The name of the current Indian Prime Minister is Narendra (Damodardas Modi) which literally means ‘King Among Men’ (Nar + Indra = Man + King, Indra also means king). I do not know if he had a child hood name. But he is surely the most powerful person, at least in the last thirty year history, amongst a billion plus Indians.
In the past four years, I have learnt a lot via the Free Republic website. I have rediscovered the US, its political system, and various other things on this wonderful site. I was raised in an academic campus supported by MIT and the American Ambassadors would visit the place often. As a child, I liked leafing through American stuff like Span, National Geographic, Popular Mechanics, Reader’s Digest, Scientific American, etc. Perhaps they are no more in print. Even Newsweek has fallen. I continue to learn about India too! One of the ways I use this website is to read about India by typing India in the search box, more than once a week. When in business school, I learnt that the best way to read news is to read political news covered by a business newspaper. They summarize it in a page or two. General newspapers in India, running into dozens of pages, carry all sorts of silly stuff. Recently I did a calculation on Times of India, the newspaper in English language with the largest circulation in the world. More than 51% of pages are devoted to advertisement, notices etc that can in no way be called as ‘news’. Such a newspaper is no more a news-paper; it should be named something else - like ‘nousepaper’. Though ‘The Economist’ magazine still considers itself as a newspaper.
Happy Children’s Day to all!
Thank you, And Happy Freeping!
I always thought Spirit might be a good name for a daughter, but maybe it wouldn’t fit India?
Maybe spell it Freepur?
Lazamataz. Emphasis on the second "a".
Thank You for taking the time to share with us!
It beats Bieber.
Chickensoup -
Thank you for the congratulations; she arrived a few years ago. And thank you for finding my post interesting. She likes Chickensoup while I have non vegetarian food just a couple of times in a month. But I had enjoyed the several helpings of ‘Chickensoup for Soul’ ages ago. Are there any newer additions?
- The Friend
Your comment -
‘Congratulations on the arrival of your daughter and thank you for the interesting post.’
Dear indcons,
I agree with you that most Indian immigrants are conservative by nature.
Perhaps you might say more on the ways of bringing more Indians toward Republicans.
Best,
The Friend
Your comment -
“Great question and something that has been occupying my mind lately. We (conservatives) need to bring more Indian and Asian-origin folks intro our fold and aggressively. As you point out, Indian immigrants are conservative by nature.”
Dear 9YearLurker,
Very educative comment for me. Since the time (recently)I became aware of the alternative beliefs of the Republicans and Democrats, I have wondered why is it that Indians in the US mostly support Democrats. I have now learnt from you that a major reason could be the way Democrats dole out to the poor from the state treasure.
I admit I have limited understanding of these issues. I only know about the Indian mind set. I guess, a reason could be that Indians in the US, traditionally, might have thought that they are different kind of immigrants - Brown (Hindu largely)Indians vs. Yellow (Buddhist/Confucian/X) Chinese or Ivory (Muslim)Arabs or White (Christian)Europeans (and South Americans). They might have perceived themselves, in the US, at the bottom of the racial/religious/nationality ladder.
This might have led to insecurities in their minds. Democrats played on that and perhaps also for all other immigrants. Indians might have thought that Democrats support the poor (most immigrants are poorer when they move in)and they might have thought Democrats offer better protection than Republicans.
This is plausible. In India too, people who moved in from other lands during the past 75 years would have a similar thinking. That is one reason the Congress party ruled India for almost all of these past decades.
What could be a solution? It depends on the voting patterns. Have all kinds of immigrants in the past 75 years voted traditionally for the Dems in the US? Or do Indians stand out? If the latter is true, then it is easier to fix.
To do so, one needs to review how are the Indian immigrants different from other kinds of immigrants? Most, at least many, fundamentally should be aligned to the Republican thinking by default. After all, most of the Indians in the US support the BJP (sort of like Reps) then Congress (sort of like Dems).
Indians are different from all other kinds of immigrants, including those from East Asia, not mainly due to their family values but due to the two things -
1. Diversity
Their awareness and acceptance of diversity. There is no other country, compared to India, in the world that has such a tremendous kinds of diversity of races, religions, languages, cultures, cuisines, castes, and income levels etc.
2. The paradox of ladders
While the Indians in the US may have been at the bottom rung of the racial/religious/nationality ladder they are at the top most rung of the economic/IQ ladder. In a way this paradox is akin to a paradox that has emerged in Asia —most Asian (leaving aside the Middle East) countries find their biggest foreign source of economic prosperity to be China and that is also their biggest source of geopolitical insecurity.
Understanding of these two features could lead to a part of the solution of involving more Indians with Republicans. If campaigns are crafted on the diversity theme, one can possibly win them over. And the US is diverse indeed. If one loves his/her adopted country of the US at the level he/she loves his/her native culture, then assimilation has been achieved.
A more general solution could lie in understanding how are classical paradoxes resolved.
I assume this assimilation might be already happening. I think US Indians are merging into the mainstream over the past generations. They might be resolving towards the middle rungs of all ladders. Are there empirical established studies that show any change in the Indians’ voting pattern over the generations or decades? That data point should be of help.
I am writing while still thinking. As I said before, I don’t know much about this and I may be 100% wrong. Perhaps, Indians living in the US and on this forum are better qualified to comment.
Best regards,
The Friend
Your comment -
“Happy Children’s Day, The Friend!
I wonder if with your background and experience you’d have any insight into the best way to bring Indian immigrants into the US around to a small-government, Constitutional, freedom-based society.
For examples, most Indians in the US I know want very much to work and prosper under free market conditions themselves, but out of their experience in India they are very cognizant of a perceived need to help and support the poor through government action. And that latter sense becomes the underpinning to their supporting the Democrat party.”
Dear Dr. Sivana,
Apologies that might my first post looked like spam. And thank you for finding it interesting and informative.
Peanuts’ grandmother was wise; I agree with her. But if I was Peanuts, I would be unsatisfied too!
Peanuts creator Schulz, having skipped couple of grades, was the youngest child amongst peers while at school. One can understand why Linus asked for a Children’s Day.
By the time India started celebrating Children’s Day, Linus’ grandmother must be in the seventies. So perhaps she was not aware of this!
Best regards.
Your comment -
“Once I was convinced this wasn’t a spam post (given your recent signup date), I read your text and found it very interesting and informative.
In the popular American comic strip “Peanuts”, Linus asks his grandmother why “there’s a Mother’s Day and a Father’s Day but not a Children’s Day?”. His grandmother replies that “Every day is children’s day.” He finds the answer unsatisfying. Now I know that there is a children’s day, in India.”
Dear Dr. Sivana,
Yes, I have heard about D’Souza’s works. I think he is good. And so is Bobby Jindal. I sincerely hopes he picks up speed. I have read a lot about him. Though I have not heard him speak, he may lack on Charisma front. Founding Fathers of US were great and I think the later leaders have had exceptional charisma too. Though I am not sure if it is a key factor.
Leaders of Indian origin in the US have adopted different strategies, may be sub consciously, and thrived. Bobby embraced Christianity.
Another Governor of Indian origin Nikki Haley, also Republican, was more innovative. I read somewhere that in a nomination paper some time back, she listed her ethnicity as white (or something else but not Indian) despite both of her parents being ethnic Indians.
But the Congressman (rather woman)to attract increasingly more attention, at least in India, the Democrat Tulsi Gabbard. In 2012, she became the first Hindu member of the US Congress. A Hawaiian, she has no ethnic connection to India.
Indians have a long history in the US electoral politics. Dalip Singh Saund, 1950’s, was the first non-Abrahamic faith person to become a member of the US Congress.
So, over a dozen ‘Indians’ might have won Nobel prizes, nay sayers claim that claim that none of them has been an Indian Indian Indian!
While talking of a large and diverse Indian community living in the US, it may sound petty to focus unduly on the factors like race, religion, and ethnicity, electoral politics does require sensitivity to these.
There could be two scenarios on leading the Indian diaspora -
1. Non electoral politics
Talking about leadership, other kinds of non political leaders in the US have emerged who could swing the Indian diaspora to the Republican side more decisively.
But for speedier results, somebody from the diaspora committed to politics, but not to electoral politics, at least in the initial stages, may be useful.
2. Non Indian-Indian-Indian
What we are talking about is a thought leader. I see no reason why such a person has to be from India, or brown, or Hindu. Any mainstream US leader can also effect a change.
The may be just hypothecating.
And why should there be a top down leadership? I think at the grassroots level, members of the Indian diaspora are themselves getting closer to the mainstream.
Sitting in India, I would just say Indians living in the US, whether Republicans or Democrats, should, and I am sure they are already doing so, continue loving their adopted homeland of the US and continue and intensify their contributions to the US society. And to the bilateral relations.
Best regards.
Your comment-
“Have you read anything by our famous conservative writer of Indian origin, D’nesh D’Souza? His book “The Roots of Obama’s Rage” was creative and full of insight. D’Souza also has made a movie about the world without America.
The Indian descended U.S. governor of Louisiana, “Bobby” Jindal (named himself after Bobby Brady of an American TV show as a child), has written a book as well. He is regarded as mostly conservative, and of an intellectual bent.”
Dear JimRed,
Thanks to you the wishes. Red is my daughter’s favourite colour! Is it the case with all children? And pardon me for taking the liberty with names, she likes gymn and jumping around a lot!
Best regards.
Your comment -
“An interesting look into another culture; thanks. And God’s Blessings on your little one.”
Dear CrazyIvan,
Thanks for the information. It now makes more sense to me why did the Russians name their submarine Akula. Shark is the largest of the fish. Is the Russian sub marine the largest?
Best regards.
Your comment -
“I believe Akula means shark in Russian.”
Dear UCANSEE2,
We still call her by several names!
Best regards.
Your comment -
“So... what did you name her ?”
Dear loungitude,
Thank you for the welcome. I will be around. Nice name!
Best regards.
Your comment -
“Welcome, Friend. Nice post.”
Dear Darksheare,
Thank you for welcoming me to the republic.
Best regards.
Your comment -
“Welcome to FR.”
Dear Darksheare,
That’s too cryptic for me. I have no reason not to assume that your comment is nice and useful.
Thank you and God Bless.
Your comment -
“I went with Ceirdwyn Trioblaid.
“Crooked woman of Trouble”.
And boy does it describe the being so named.”
Dear Lazamataz,
;-) Sense of humour is another quality of Free Republicans that I like!
By the way, Lazamataz is an intriguing name too! I wonder what it means or refers too/
Best regards.
Your comment -
“I think “Thank You Freepers” would be a poor name for your daughter.”
Dear jocon307,
Thank you for caring to respond.
Best regards.
Your comment -
“Thanks, thanks, same to you!”
Dear TexasCajun,
Thanks. I will take the generous interpretation that noob means newbie. Sure, unique names are in vogue. More importantly, a name should also be meaningful and aspirational to for the newer addition to humanity.
Best regards.
Your comment -
“Welcome Noob,
Unique names are all the rage.
Freesha”
Dear gaijin,
A very warm Hello to you too. Its good to know of someone who easily straddles the cultures of the US and Japan.
You seem to be a great reader and thinker yourself.
Writing and speaking (but regrettably not so much as reading and listening!) comes naturally to the people of and now east of Indus!
Have you seen the Indian movie ‘English-Vinglish’? I read somewhere that the Japanese first lady sort of cried when she was at the launch of its premier in Japan.
Best regards.
Your comment -
“Great writer!
Hello and welcome.”
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