Posted on 12/16/2014 5:42:31 PM PST by Kartographer
The Kharkiv Pact created a lease for what Russia had already owned for centuries before Kruschev gave it to the Ukrainian SSR. And that lease would have meant nothing to the new Kiev government if it has joined NATO.
A provocation? What danger does NATO pose to Russia? And those 12 nations and there are more, begged to get into NATO because they did not want to come under Russian imperialism again. I lived two years in Poland during the days of Solidarnosc and the oppression of Communism. I went back about 14 years ago and Poland is a much better place. They have been liberated.
The current economic war against Russia and the steady war drumbeat are very real provocations. I am happy for Poland and other nations that are now free of Communism - and that includes post-Soviet Russia - but I am not interested in taking sides and fighting for or against any of them. There is no ideological threat in Europe today, only a mercantilist struggle masquerading as old Cold War antagonists.
There is no moral equivalency between Russia and the NATO nations.
I am not interested in moral equivalency and do not wish to take sides in fights that are none of America's business.
More BS. I don't see how you can buy into that Russian propaganda. The facts say otherwise. It was a mistake, but the plane was shot down by the Russians along with other Ukrainian planes that have been shot down by the Russians.
Russian propaganda has nothing to do with it. "Cui bono?" or "Who benefits?" is the basic question that must always be asked in the wake of such "game changing" yet inexplicable events. Russia had no motive and no possible benefit in shooting down an airliner, which was flying at a much higher altitude than the turboprop transports shot down by the rebels earlier. On the other hand, Kiev had a huge motive and much to gain from shooting down the airliner and blaming it on Russia.
MAD. The Russians do not want to commit national suicide any more than they did during the Cold War. Having a huge nuclear arsenal and a relative weak conventional force does not allow them to project power globally. They are a gas station masquerading as a nation. Putin is delusional. He is trying to resurrect an empire that no longer exists.
Perhaps that's true. It might also be that Russia won't think it will be suicide. There is no evidence that post-Soviet Russia has any interest in projecting power globally, but there is evidence that Moscow is pursuing regional alliances and that it wants to be left alone at home. And it is evident that NATO is intent on pressing against Russia's borders.
Russia has negative population growth; life expectancy for males is 64 years; a fertility rate of 1.61; a per capita GDP of $18,100; and oil and gas represent two thirds of their revenue. Economic power is also a measure of a superpower and Russia's economy is about to descend into the toilet.
All of those statistics are true, and Russia might well descend into the economic toilet. But many Russians have lived only slightlyabove the toilet and can handle scarcity a lot better than higher living Westerners. And if it does sink into the toilet, it will be with the world's largest arsenal of nukes.
We’re already in Poland on the ground and in the air. The Polish tank forces by themselves are a potent force against the Russians.
Interesting discussion as war (on economic level) ramps up. Be prepared.
You have an excellent grasp of this situation. All that you said is spot-on.
We still have the most powerful and best military force in the world.
There is a feeling that some war profiteer with lots of money, clout and control of the message is working to suck the USA and others into either major saber rattling, or outright war with Russia. None of them will ever leave the comfort of a plush office somewhere in the financial district of NYC or London..
It seems this entire Russian thing started when Obama and Putin had a run-in over Snowden. The Ukrainian thing then developed because of Obama and Victoria Nuland creating havoc.. The former commies in Russia are now in the USA and in Obamas administration.
please
Russia is to blame for Russia’s actions.
It’s tempting to say that the Snowden episode could not really be precursor to a disaster but when you remember that we have a petulant narcissist as president it becomes a real possibility.
Looks like Putin overplayed his cards...but then he is a liberal so it shouldn’t be surprisng....
Still one does feel for the Russian people as the Ukrainians...they just can’t seem to get good governance for very long at all....
As for the plane which was taken down...looks more and more that the evidence is pointing to Kiev. They;ve been keeping it at bay though as they don't want anything to jeopardize what the US is doing in Ukraine. To bring it out now would be disastrous for Poroshenko...but it will come out.
The worldwide fallout is starting. “Emerging Market” funds are getting crushed.
Bloomberg:
Russia Crisis Hits Pimco Fund, Wipes Out Options
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-12-16/russia-crisis-hits-pimco-fund-wipes-out-options-as-ruble-sinks.html
...”Russia’s fallout is spreading across global markets”...
I do recall one particular individual saying that if Russia goes others would also be affected globally...and that sanctions weren’t good business ....further that sanctions would create instability across European countrys. Humm-mm...who could that have been.....
So which country is next to feel the Obama Hit from his sanctions....Greece...perhaps. Spain...and the list wil be plentiful.
Russia has enough USD to cover its soveriegn debt.....
The corporate debt, that might not be paid, is owned by Euro and US banks...he may abonon them and go fully with the new BRics ...if he does the dollar will surely be affected.
This entire thing is being orchestrated....and not by Obama alone....if they can break or fracture the economic system...the outcry will be for someone to do something....Globalist Banking coming soon?
http://www.bloomberg.com/video/fed-will-implement-qe4-in-early-2016-rick.
Wouldn’t take much to push the USA over the brink at the rate things are going....course printing money will continue but should the Globalist’s step in fully in this economic shake...they could at minimum weaken us beyond what we would think possible...everythings moving East!
Ha ha. Miss it like a wet formal suit.
“Then Riddle me this Batman,, why DIDN’T Reagan do that. It was a Russian outpost and Navy base in the 80s. Besides, Reagan would have already fast tracked Keystone.”
Batman? I’m more of a Marvel man, but that’s for a different day and lots of scotch. I would go with he didn’t do that in the 80’s because there was something called theSoviet Union and Crimea and Ukraine were part of it?
But you are correct, Reagan would have fast tracked Keystone if there was a Republican congress and senate that would have put it on his desk for signature.
Yes, and this event has disturbed the Russian Government enough to mobilize an extraordinary number of its Corps of Internet Trolls to overwhelm the topic of discussion. How many of Putin’s trolls can anyone identify on this thread?
apoliticalone
Always A Marine
Bobalu
caww
Chickensoup
TCRLAF
OUt of the UN!
~It’s tempting to say that the Snowden episode could not really be precursor to a disaster but when you remember that we have a petulant narcissist as president it becomes a real possibility.~
Add Obama’s Syrian fiasco defused by Russian diplomacy. They have allowed Obama to save face though his plan to bring America into another war for Saudis has failed.
It was a a final drop for narcissist in chief and here comes a Ukrainian coup.
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