Posted on 08/10/2015 9:21:32 AM PDT by Theo
“I’m a hippie? LOL.”
You sound like it on Viet Nam, and you’re arguing like it here:
“What, precisely, did the war in Iraq accomplish?”
How, precisely, did I get on the hook to explain to you what the war in Iraq accomplished? We were discussing Viet Nam, not Iraq.
The topic was ‘wars since wwII’ and ‘elites who don’t want to win those’ and ‘dead GI’s for no good reason’.
“‘Red Kennedy’ isn’t someone other than us btw. The US government abandoned the south vietnamese.”
Simplistic. If the left had not turned Watergate into a fraudulently grave “constitutional crisis,” neither the Cape Cod Orca nor anyone else would have had the political capital to force that betrayal.
The American people wanted peace with honor. Nixon gave it to them. After he fell, Kennedy et al cut off aid to Viet Nam against the will of the people.
“I have my own theory why we were there but the ‘save vietnam from communism’ was only a platitude floated to the masses, not the reason the elites were there.”
That is a truly despicable thing to say. Cynical people may attach themselves to a noble endeavor and make money off it; it is no less noble for all that.
America went to Viet Nam because they begged us to help them against the communists. That was the only reason that the American people supported the war. It is to their credit that they continued to support it for so long, in the face of a tsunami of lying liberal propaganda—of the sort you are repeating here.
I have already given you three reasons that we were right to help Viet Nam.
No, the topic was, “Should all public officials be combat veterans?”
A comment was made on Viet Nam, to which I responded.
“Except that there is no evidence that Trump and the Clintons have ever been political enemies. Trump donated to Hillary multiple times - 2002, 2005, 2006 and 2007. And that does not even consider the money donated to the Clinton Foundation.”
So you think he’s pulling an Elmer Gantry?
To which I responded something along the lines of ‘expecting combat veterans from generations who have been subjected to wars with no meaning or point other than killing GI’s’ is pointless.
Would you encourage kids today to sign up knowing that the ROE’s are deliberatly crafted to ensure as many dead GI’s as possible?
Would you hold it against those same kids in a generation should any of them run for public office?
Now, see, this line of argumentation is pointless. I spoke of how things should be, in a healthy society, and you want to criticize the idea because it could not immediately be implemented under today’s extraordinary circumstances.
“Would you encourage kids today to sign up knowing that the ROE’s are deliberatly crafted to ensure as many dead GI’s as possible?”
Have you never heard the maxim, “Don’t attribute to malice that which can be explained by stupidity (or incompetence, or a few other things.)”?
If you want to make the extraordinary claim that “ROE’s are deliberately crafted to ensure as many dead GI’s as possible,” which on its face is way out on the lunatic fringe, you need to provide extraordinary proof.
“Would you hold it against those same kids in a generation should any of them run for public office?”
Given the extraordinary circumstances we face today, probably not.
I would still start implementing a system limiting public office to combat veterans.
In a healthy society with leaders who actually saw themselves as part of the REST of society, and not Gods of Olympus, yes this would be a great idea.
We haven’t had that sort of ‘trustable’ elites for 60 or 75 years. Maybe longer.
Thus I don’t personally hold someone’s lack of military service during (undeclared) wartime against them. I take it on an individual basis. I wouldn’t hold it against trump because no one has come across pictures of him holding anti-US signage while marching in an anti-war rally. Lots of pols these days with pics like that though.
“Thus I don’t personally hold someone’s lack of military service during (undeclared) wartime against them.”
I’m not holding lack of military service against anyone who did not commit an act of cowardice to avoid it, as did Billy Jeff Blythe.
To require that public officials be vets is not about holding anything against anyone. It is merely limiting the field to the tried and tested. Others might be suitable, but why take the chance?
Anyone who served for the last 20 years has suspect judgement. Why take the chance?
My nephew regrets his service and asks himself daily why the heck did he do it? And for what?
ISIS now holds most of the towns his buddies died to take. Bet they wish they hadn’t signed up either. At least one of their families do.
Get back to me when we have a ‘real’ war with ‘real’ sides and REAL endpoints and outcomes and our elites consciously and loudly proclaim that they’re on OUR side. Then I’d think someone who served didn’t need a mental evaluation.
So you think he’s pulling an Elmer Gantry?
His "evolution" on his political positions has been very recent on a number of issues. It may all be legitimate or it may be for political purposes - there is not enough of a record to judge. But his history should be a fair subject for inquiry, just as everyone else. And that part of his history is of particular concern to many people. To argue that it shouldn't be of concern does not change that fact.
Irony, thy name is “Hostage”! You really do not see that by referring to us as “snobbish” and “ nobodies” because we dare to challenge or question the Donald’s history or his political positions, you validate the point that the author of the article was making...
“But his history should be a fair subject for inquiry, just as everyone else. And that part of his history is of particular concern to many people. To argue that it shouldn’t be of concern does not change that fact.”
I agree without reservation.
But how to judge?
“Anyone who served for the last 20 years has suspect judgement.”
That is simply false...and, yes, a despicable thing to say.
“My nephew regrets his service and asks himself daily why the heck did he do it? And for what?”
That’s terrible, and unnecessary. It would seem that he has fallen under the sway of leftists mired in 1960s hiptard thinking.
“Bet they wish they hadn’t signed up either.”
Don’t bet; find out.
“Get back to me when we have a ‘real’ war”
When soldiers are dying in the field it is a real war.
“Then I’d think someone who served didn’t need a mental evaluation.”
That’s a twisted viewpoint which I have never seen expressed by a conservative.
My nephew gained nothing from his service but lost an eye.
His buddies lost their lives.
All to take towns in Iraq that our elites have given to ISIS.
Who won that?
Each person will have to judge for themselves if these issues are important to them, and how it affects their opinion of Trump (or any other candidate). The important thing is to air the info, allow the candidates to explain if they can, and then decide how it affects your choice. Trying to stop the issue from being discussed is never the right choice.
“My nephew gained nothing from his service”
I’ll bet that’s not true. Time will tell.
“but lost an eye.”
A great sacrifice. We all owe him a debt we can never pay.
“All to take towns in Iraq that our elites have given to ISIS.”
They are not elites; they are obamazoid traitors. The same kind of traitors that sold out Viet Nam.
“Who won that?”
It is too early to tell.
At least the diaper heads know that we can come kick their asses any time it suits us. That’s worth a lot.
“The important thing is to air the info, allow the candidates to explain if they can, and then decide how it affects your choice. Trying to stop the issue from being discussed is never the right choice.”
Again, I agree completely.
“They are not elites; they are obamazoid traitors. The same kind of traitors that sold out Viet Nam.”
Pssst, it wasn’t just the obamazoids. Have you heard any Republican leaders criticize our abandoning the gains in Iraq?
The ground where nephew was injured is literally in Isis hands right now.
It’s looking increasingly like WE are responsible for the rise of Isis. Up to and including funding and arming them.
Lost youth and injured youth for nothing. Soon we’ll be told we need to expend more youth to fight the isis we likely had a hand in creating. That’s the definition of insanity right there...
“Pssst, it wasn’t just the obamazoids. Have you heard any Republican leaders criticize our abandoning the gains in Iraq?”
No. They bear guilt for not trying to stop the obamazoids, but it is the left that drives the horrible decisions.
“The ground where nephew was injured is literally in Isis hands right now.”
The ebb and flow of war. I can see how it would torment the men who fought there, much like Hamburger Hill. History has yet to play itself out.
“It’s looking increasingly like WE are responsible for the rise of Isis. Up to and including funding and arming them.”
What is this “we?” You got a hildebeest in your pocket? I am not part of any “we” that includes obola, John Kerry, the empty pant suit, or any of those characters.
They are capable of anything, up to and including arming our enemies, but don’t you even try to put that on me.
“Lost youth and injured youth for nothing.”
There you go again, sounding like a ken kesey acid head hipster.
Not for nothing. Never for nothing.
“Soon we’ll be told we need to expend more youth to fight the isis we likely had a hand in creating.”
Look on the bright side: Maybe Trump will be elected, and maybe he will call in his new Chairman of the Joint Chiefs and tell him, “Take care of it. Get back to me when you’re done.”
“That’s the definition of insanity right there...”
Not even close.
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