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To: grey_whiskers; UndauntedR; HarleyD; ahayes; betty boop; metmom; jwalsh07; SirLinksalot; ...
Since this is the thread to discuss the "The Mathematician's View of Evolution" by Sewell

and there was an updated version of the paper posted here:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/1704943/posts?page=329#329

'thought it would be prudent [at this juncture : ) ] to highlight a few quotes from the updated article.



Quotes from updated Sewell article:

"....to understand the real problem with Darwinism: it is simply that it is extremely improbable."

"Natural forces, such as corrosion, erosion, fire and explosions, do not create order, they destroy it. The second law is all about probability. The reason natural forces may turn a spaceship into a pile of rubble but not vice-versa is probability: of all the possible arrangements atoms could take, only a very small percentage could fly to the moon and back.”

“So I wrote a reply, ‘Can ANYTHING Happen in an Open System?’”….interesting discussion here w/ equations in appendix

“…..I offered the tautology that ‘if an increase in order is extremely improbable when a system is closed, it is still extremely improbable when the system is open, unless something is entering which makes the increase not extremely improbable.’ The fact that order is disappearing in the next room does not make it any easier for computers to appear in our room—unless this order is disappearing *into* our room, and then only if it is a type of order that makes the appearance of computers not extremely improbable, for example, computers…..”

“But there is no other phenomenon anywhere that gives such an extreme impression of violating the second law; the development of life on Earth is completely unique. I believe the development of life has indeed violated the “supreme” law of Nature, in a most spectacular way, but perhaps I am wrong. Perhaps it only seems extremely improbable, but really isn’t, that, under the right conditions, the influx of stellar energy could cause atoms to arrange themselves into computers and nuclear power plants and spaceships. But one would think that at least this would be considered an open question, and people who argue that it really is extremely improbable, and thus contrary to the basic principle underlying the second law, would be given a measure of respect……”


These are quotes.
Any quote is by definition "quote-mining".
All "quote-mining" is by definition false.

Therefore all quotes must certainly be false.
There is never a quote which could ever be true.


Pardon the sarcasm, however the absurdity and improbability of a purely chance universe having life that spontaneously generates has put me in a sarcastic mood:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/1704943/posts?page=246#246
378 posted on 09/23/2006 12:42:28 AM PDT by FreedomProtector
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To: FreedomProtector; All
I'm curious . . . what is the current . . . EVO . . . doctrine of faith about PANSPERMIA? Seems to me that the mathematician's calculations are muchmore in sympathy with Panspermia conjectures than with evolution. I've also read recently somewhere that even some former evolutionists who are still hostile to ID are saying that evolution's days are numbered as an explanation.

Here's an article from Linda Moulton Howe's site re a protoge of Astronomer Fred Holye and the red rain organisms in India which do not seem to have earthly DNA but which replicate. Excerpts follow from:

http://www.earthfiles.com/news/news.cfm?ID=1129&category=Science HERE

EXCERPTS

Red Rain Cells of Kerala, India - Still No Definite DNA

© 2006 by Linda Moulton Howe

August 19, 2006 Cardiff, Wales - Nearly half a century ago in 1960, a mathematics graduate student from Colombo, Sri Lanka, set off on his first international trip to Cambridge, England. His name is Chandra Wickramasinghe. He was fascinated by stars in the night skies, wondered about other life Out There, and his Cambridge University advanced degree was in Astronomy. His faculty supervisor was the famous Cambridge astronomer, Fred Hoyle. The two men had the curiosity and courage to look for other life in the universe by studying cosmic dust. Their controversial panspermia hypothesis was that the universe is teeming with at least microbial life, which can be transported from one cosmic location to another. In their collaboration, the two astronomers felt strongly that the double helix DNA found in all Earth life had been seeded here by comets or other cosmic bodies and that same DNA would be found in all life forms throughout the cosmos.

. . .

Dr. Louis reported as many as 15 “daughter cells” budded within one “mother cell” and then broke out of the adult cell. That was clearly a process of replication. In normal Earth biology, replication requires the presence of DNA. But Dr. Louis could not find evidence of DNA in the multiplying cells in his test tubes.

. . .

Eight months ago, in January of 2006, Dr. Louis contacted astrobiologist, Chandra Wickramasinghe, now at Cardiff University in Wales. Soon Prof. Wickramasinghe had some vials of the red rainwater to study and sent some to biologists at Sheffield University in England. America’s Cornell University also received some red rain samples to analyze isotopic ratios. Elements confirmed so far are hydrogen, silicon, oxygen, carbon, and aluminum. But, there still is no definitive confirmation of DNA, or what makes the cell walls red.

This month on August 7 to 8, I was in the Microbiology Lab at Cardiff University to see the red rainwater for myself and to talk with Prof. Wickramasinghe and his graduate student, Nori Miyake. Nori has tried to break open the cells to amplify whatever DNA might be there. Nori showed me the pale pink rainwater in test tubes. You can see photographs at my news website, www.Earthfiles.com. At the top of the Headlines page is a hot link to this red rain report with photographs and microscopic images.

Nori told me he has never seen such thick, hard cell walls, which he could only partially penetrate. He is concerned about contamination in the fluorescent techniques he tried, which indicate there might be DNA. But in his fluorescent research, there have been variables, which might be false positives. He does not even know if he ever extracted anything from the red cells because the walls were so thick and hard to break.

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =

I think it will be interesting to see how quickly, slowly, with what levels of resistence different spheres of the Unholy See of evolution surrenders to some of the alternative explanations without tolerating any support of ID.

Certainly the change is coming. The globalists will shift the 'science,' if nothing else. The impersonal evolutionary explanation fits their goals only up to a point. At some point, they will most likely have to shift the explanation to something like panspermia etc. I figure doing so will be necessary to fit their arising scenarios and contentions "requiring" the world to submit to a global government.

It seems to me that the mathematician's calculations in support of ID or some such are much more solid; simple, clean, much more in keeping with Occam's Razor etc. than any other explanation.

380 posted on 09/23/2006 4:16:58 AM PDT by Quix (LET GOD ARISE AND HIS ENEMIES BE SCATTERED. LET ISRAEL CALL ON GOD AS THEIRS! & ISLAM FLUSH ITSELF)
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To: FreedomProtector; Alamo-Girl; hosepipe; Quix; ConservativeDude; .30Carbine; DaveLoneRanger
Any thoughtful person knows that it isn't the influx of stellar energy [that causes] atoms to arrange themselves into computers and nuclear power plants and spaceships, it's human creativity. That ought to give us a clue into the nature of Creation itself.

Thank you so very much for your excellent essay/post, FreedomProtector -- and for the link!

430 posted on 09/23/2006 11:10:44 AM PDT by betty boop (Beautiful are the things we see...Much the most beautiful those we do not comprehend. -- N. Steensen)
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To: FreedomProtector
But there is no other phenomenon anywhere that gives such an extreme impression of violating the second law; the development of life on Earth is completely unique.

So, what, I wonder, is the mechanism that overcomes the 2nd law and causes the formation of so much order and complexity over such a vast amount of space for such long periods of time?

Perhaps the evolutionists could answer that. But oh wait, that's not part of the ToE. Can't answer that one.

488 posted on 09/23/2006 8:07:19 PM PDT by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: FreedomProtector
"Natural forces, such as corrosion, erosion, fire and explosions, do not create order, they destroy it.”

We observe many things happening on earth that result in a local lowering of entropy, many of these things are triggered by "natural forces" such as heat and light. When the foundation of a person's argument is the denial of these readily observable phenomenon, the rest of their argument fails, being built upon sand.

546 posted on 09/25/2006 9:47:54 AM PDT by ahayes (My strength is as the strength of ten because my heart is pure.)
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