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Baldwin Not the Only Culprit in Custody Battle with Basinger
San Diego Union-Tribune ^ | 4/27/07 | Jeffery M. Leving and Glenn Sacks

Posted on 04/27/2007 10:34:04 AM PDT by PercivalWalks

Alec Baldwin’s angry, over-the-top voice-mail tirade at his daughter, Ireland, was clearly wrong. Unfortunately, while we’ve been wringing our hands over how bad Baldwin is, we’re ignoring the case’s central truth – Kim Basinger’s well-documented parental alienation campaign against Baldwin.

Parental alienation often arises after a divorce, as one angry, vengeful parent tries to turn the children against the other parent, destroying the loving bonds the children and the target parent once enjoyed. Baldwin claims that his outburst occurred in the context of Basinger alienating Ireland and trying to drive him out of his daughter’s life.

This claim appears to have merit. In fact, Basinger’s own mother has publicly condemned her behavior. Ann Basinger, Ireland’s grandmother, calls Baldwin a “wonderful” parent, and says:

“My heart is sad for Ireland. She’s the one that’s suffering the most. All this is killing her. I think Kim has tried to alienate Ireland from her father. Alec loves his daughter with all his heart. He really is a family man . . . I hate what [Kim] is doing.”

Journalist Pat Lalama, who has covered the Baldwin-Basinger divorce and custody battle since their break-up seven years ago, recently told CNN:

“In all the years that I have covered celebrities . . . this was one of the meanest exchanges between two human beings . . . some of the things that Kim Basinger was demanding, in order to humiliate him, were outrageous . . . [Baldwin] was provoked by an angry ex, which I’m guessing is probably the case here, [and] he went over the edge.”

Earlier this year Baldwin charged that Basinger has: violated his visitation rights; interfered with his phone access to Ireland; and not notified him when she was going to be out of town so Baldwin could care for Ireland himself rather than leaving her with Basinger’s baby-sitters.

In court Baldwin produced messages that Basinger gave Ireland before Ireland’s visits with Baldwin. The messages, which were printed on candy bar wrappers, implied that Basinger had been mistreated by Baldwin and that Basinger and Ireland are aligned together.

Despite this, Baldwin has made legitimate attempts to placate Basinger in the best interests of their child. In November he even went on “Larry King Live” and praised Basinger, telling King, “I think she’s a great mother, yes, a good mom.”

In the long run, the apparent decision to leak the tape to the media – in violation of a court order – is far more damaging to Ireland than Baldwin’s angry tirade. Had the tape not been leaked, Baldwin would have apologized to Ireland, and the incident would have been soon forgotten. Instead, Ireland will be embarrassed by the incident for the rest of her childhood.

One tactic frequently employed by alienating mothers is to try to provoke the father into blowing his top by interfering with his relationship with his children. When he does, mom pretends to be scared of “his awful temper,” and gets the father’s already limited role in his daughter’s life reduced. Baldwin was foolish to play into Basinger’s hands.

As the target parent of parental alienation, Baldwin is in a very difficult and painful situation. John Stossel, in his new book Myths, Lies and Downright Stupidity: Get Out the Shovel – Why Everything You Know is Wrong, describes an example of parental alienation he filmed for his TV show:

“We videotaped one such heartbreaking scene. A divorced father went to see his five kids for what he thought would be a full-day visit. He was entitled to that, under court order, and the court also ordered the mother not to discourage the children from spending time with their father. But she clearly had poisoned his children’s minds against him. The father just stood outside his ex-wife’s house and begged his children, ‘Would you like to go out with me today?’ ‘No,’ said one kid after another. Then the mother ordered the kids back into her house.

“What comes through on the tape is the unbridled satisfaction of the mother and the helplessness of the father.”

Can any parent reading this honestly say that, were they in this father’s shoes, they would never blow their top?

Jeffery M. Leving is one of America’s most prominent family law attorneys. Glenn Sacks’ columns on men’s and fathers’ issues have appeared in dozens of the largest newspapers in the United States. www.GlennSacks.com


TOPICS: Chit/Chat
KEYWORDS: alecbaldwin; barfalert; childabuse; excusesexcuses; irelandbaldwin; kimbasinger; parentalalienation; spouseabuse; stalker; wifebeater
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To: PercivalWalks
One tactic frequently employed by alienating mothers is to try to provoke the father into blowing his top by interfering with his relationship with his children. When he does, mom pretends to be scared of “his awful temper,”

Women do that all the time.

51 posted on 04/27/2007 11:33:30 AM PDT by Rodney King (No, we can't all just get along.)
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To: PercivalWalks

Ireland should be placed in a children’s version of the Witness Protection Program. She needs protection from both of her parents!


52 posted on 04/27/2007 11:33:45 AM PDT by RdhseRat
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To: stm

53 posted on 04/27/2007 11:33:55 AM PDT by Ouderkirk (Don't you think it's interesting how death and destruction seems to happen wherever Muslims gather.)
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To: micho

Or could that be exactly what she wants you to believe. She’s a smart cookie. When did you stop beating your spouse.


54 posted on 04/27/2007 11:36:09 AM PDT by tiki
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To: PercivalWalks

Of course Alec loves the little child he calls a “pig.” Being an America hater and self-loathing liberal, he subconciously realizes that she is the only good and pure thing in his life.


55 posted on 04/27/2007 11:36:42 AM PDT by subterfuge (Today, Tolerance =greatest virtue;Hypocrisy=worst character defect; Discrimination =worst atrocity)
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To: berstbubble; GoldwaterChick

You and me both, pal.

A favorite tactic is to undermine any discipline. If I say “no” then their mother simply says I am evil for not giving them what they want without question.

I went to pick up my son last year for a scheduled five-day visit and he refused to come. His mother and sister had worked on him for ten days. He later admitted it was wrong and we’re OK now (he’s 16), but I didn’t get him until that Friday.

It was the week and weekend of Father’s Day.

Regarding these two Hollywood stars, all I can say is that IMHO Kim is much more evil for leaking that phone conversation to the media than Alec is for saying it (which is indefensible). The leaking is far more damaging to the kid than the phone message, and unlike the phone message which was generated by instant anger over not having a scheduled phone call, the leak was a calculated attack on Alec made with complete disregard to the fact that it would hurt the kid.

I provided the majority of time and care for my daughter for sixteen years and she pretty much turned on me because her mother would give her everything she wanted without question and I wouldn’t. Plus late teens are tough for dads and daughters anyway. I haven’t seen her for a year and she won’t even return phone calls.

But I know I did my best and hopefully when she has kids she’ll understand.

Hang in their, pal. As dads our job is to do right by our kids and not do what’s easy and wrong — even if it really hurts and the old blood pressure is higher than it should be.


56 posted on 04/27/2007 11:37:05 AM PDT by You Dirty Rats (I Love Free Republic!)
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To: texan75010
There is no excuse. I dont care who pisses you off, you don’t scream at your kids or call them names.

I agree, but this is also one of those situations where "he who is without guilt can cast the first stone" applies.

I've had times when I've yelled at my kids. I shut that down some time ago. It is simply not helpful and not excusible. But I can't condemn parents who yell at their kids too much because I've been guilty of it in the past and it's (sadly) a pretty common thing in many households -- including mine growing up.

No matter how materially well-off that young girl is, I'm sure she'd give it all up for a little peace and quiet. My wife and I, after counseling, realized we had to turn our home into a safe and nonthreatening place for my son. It's been wonderful. I only wish I had seen the light long ago.

57 posted on 04/27/2007 11:41:33 AM PDT by You Dirty Rats (I Love Free Republic!)
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To: texan75010

So has your ex tried to alienate your kids, taken out restraining orders, refused to let you see your kids, stood in the background and told your kids what to say to you including very nasty stuff and on and on? Has she accused you of physical abuse? Honestly, we despise Alec, but we haven’t walked in his shoes, I just happen to know someone who has and I can tell you who I believe and at this point in time, it is Alec.


58 posted on 04/27/2007 11:44:05 AM PDT by tiki
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To: berstbubble

Amen.


59 posted on 04/27/2007 11:44:52 AM PDT by tiki
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To: Nachum
"There is no excuse for Basinger to release the recording to the public."

Are you certain she released it? I believe she denied doing so. While release of the audio certainly benefited Basinger, there are a number of possibilities as to how it was released...Basinger's attorney or paralegal, Family Court clerks, etc. Despite the juicy tidbits TMZ.com releases from time to time (they 'hit the big time with the release of the Mel Gibson DUI story), they are still basically gossip mongers, and I doubt that paying a lowly courthouse clerk the equivalent of their annual salary cost them anything compared to the hits they got and the free publicity they received via the Baldwin tapes.

60 posted on 04/27/2007 11:45:14 AM PDT by Joe 6-pack
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To: berstbubble
The reason I remember that guy in London is because a great friend of ours sat in our living room and wept when he saw it on CNN. This man was such a care-free guy, such a wonderful husband and father. His wife, Victim Central (Gawd, we all hated her from the get go!) needed to win. What is “win” in a divorce? There are no winners in divorce, outside of money and child custody issues.

This low-level feminist wannabe actually got her daughters, ages 2 yrs. and 7 yrs. to say that their Dad had molested them. It was a bald faced lie beyond comprehension. She won in the courts, he is forever labeled a child molester, and the Family Court rolls right along. The FemiNazi Clintonista judge convicted him without due process and it stuck. Having witnessed all of this, I can tell you that I was not the least bit surprised that Nifong got away with his lynching of the Duke kids. I have seen what a low paid, “longing for glory” prosecutor is capable of....

This case happened in the 90’s. Our friend is remarried and has a new family. His two daughters from the first marriage are tweaker skanks. He tried his damnest, but the courts are all about the mother and he lost out on his older daughters. It was all about “Mom” even though she was never ever around. Those two girls had more babysitters than you could count. About all I can do, or anyone who knows about this one case can do, is hope to hell that they get theirs one day on the other side. Alec Baldwin is a father trying to maintain a connection to his only child. Kim Basinger released this tape to get out of her own legal misdeeds. It’s heartbreaking, but it happens every single day in the U.S.A. because men have been beaten down by the Family Court system. How many MEN stay in heinous situations just so they can protect their kids? FIVE YEARS, FIVE YEARS in a custody dispute? Somebody needs to dig deeper.

61 posted on 04/27/2007 11:45:46 AM PDT by ishabibble (ALL AMERICAN INFIDEL)
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To: PercivalWalks

May the Lord strike me dead if I would talk to any of my daughters that way.


62 posted on 04/27/2007 11:45:46 AM PDT by Citizen Tom Paine (Swift as the wind; Calmly majestic as a forest; Steady as the mountains.)
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To: You Dirty Rats

I can’t stand Baldwin in any way shape or form.. And the way he treated his daughter was disgusting regardless of how his exwife acted... But that being said...

I wanted to thank you and the other fathers who are fighting for their kids. My father passed away in January and I miss him so much every day. He was the most important person in my life and regardless of anything that went on in his life he never made me feel less than loved. He was a man among men, and the greatest father I could have ever hoped for. We did have our troubles in my teen years, but he NEVER gave up on me. Please... Your daughters and sons need you more than you know. I am a strong woman today, joyfully married for 20 years, and a good mother (IMHO) because my FATHER was in my life. NO ONE can take the place of a strong, good, and devoted father.


63 posted on 04/27/2007 11:46:53 AM PDT by dha (The safest place to be is within the will of God.)
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To: GoforBroke

I don’t need to like or respect Alec Baldwin’s political views to feel pity for him in this situation. If the ex-wife can do this to a man of means with impunity, then the poor man has no chance of remaining in his child’s life under similar circumstances.

Baldwin’s anger over this situation is understandable. That he lashed out at his daughter, shows that he is concerned about the type of person she will become under her mother’s guidance. Petty, vengeful, etc. Maybe a future candidate for a men’s magazine, or adult film star....I’m sure dad would be so proud of that !!

I do feel bad for the child here, both parents are immature jackasses.


64 posted on 04/27/2007 11:47:11 AM PDT by Ouderkirk (Don't you think it's interesting how death and destruction seems to happen wherever Muslims gather.)
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To: ishabibble

I agree with you. Experiencing much the same thing with a grandson - sigh.


65 posted on 04/27/2007 11:52:03 AM PDT by stubernx98 (cranky, but reasonable)
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To: tiki

My ex tried to line up anyone she could to testify against me as being a bad father. HER OWN PARENTS REFUSED. She did take out a restraining order to bar me from seeing the kids.....it was quickly batted down by the court...the kids just ignored it and came over anyway. In fact the moved in with me as soon as they could.

My ex tried and failed to accuse me of all sorts of things and failed. She failed because she tried to describe a person that I am not.

Baldwin is a hot head and was exposed. No one can bring out of you what is not already there.

Nice try, but I have been there and done that....it simply doesnt wash.


66 posted on 04/27/2007 11:53:48 AM PDT by texan75010
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To: RdhseRat

They actually have Guardian ad litems for children like this but they are usually liberal flakes. She seriously needs someone who has no contact with either of her parents and is fully aware of parental alienation.


67 posted on 04/27/2007 11:54:27 AM PDT by tiki
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To: beer
Kim, you're a bad girl...

68 posted on 04/27/2007 11:56:32 AM PDT by beeber (stuned)
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To: PercivalWalks

I’m no Alec Baldwin fan, but figure it out people! Kim Basinger leaked that tape out with the clear, manipulative intention of trying to destroy Baldwin. Baldwin was way out of line with his comments, but in my mind, Basinger is more than likely the real source of evil in the whole family saga.


69 posted on 04/27/2007 11:56:58 AM PDT by Obadiah (Republicans - the battered wives of Democrats.)
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To: dha
Well, thank you for the kind words and the encouragement. The thanks are good too, and it's nice to hear -- but for me, frankly, I just do not understand those fathers (or mothers) who abandon their kids when they have the capacity to care for them. I don't get it, I don't relate to it, I don't understand it. It's my JOB to be a good father. It's the most basic duty of any man who impregnates a woman.

And I also can't understand a child who would reject a loving parent, either. I really can't. We all have our ups and downs with kids and parents, but I do not get abandonment.

The weakness of fathers in our society is one of the main reasons -- perhaps the most important reason -- why this country is in crisis IMHO.It's bad for men, worse for women and a complete disaster for kids. The only winners are man-hating feminists -- and who ever put them in charge, anyway? But they ARE in charge -- just look at the divorce / child support / alimony industry.

Let me make it clear that fathers who don't support (or mothers) SHOULD have the full power of the Government come down on them. But let's at least try to separate the good eggs from the bad ones. Not all of us dads are deadbeats.

70 posted on 04/27/2007 11:59:20 AM PDT by You Dirty Rats (I Love Free Republic!)
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To: PercivalWalks
Unfortunately, while we’ve been wringing our hands over how bad Baldwin is, we’re ignoring the case’s central truth – Kim Basinger’s well-documented parental alienation campaign against Baldwin.

That is because it is completely irrelevant to Baldwin's behavior.

71 posted on 04/27/2007 12:00:12 PM PDT by Sloth (The GOP is to DemonRats in politics as Michael Jackson is to Jeffrey Dahmer in babysitting.)
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To: stm

where can i get one of those?


72 posted on 04/27/2007 12:02:32 PM PDT by bella1 (Support the Minuteman Project.)
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To: Ouderkirk

A “loving” father does NOT humiliate his daughter on national tv repeatedly. I am not surprised she didn’t want to talk to him after he mocked her on Letterman’s show.


73 posted on 04/27/2007 12:04:41 PM PDT by Politicalmom (Conservatives want freedom. Republicans want power.)
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To: Joe 6-pack
Are you certain she released it?

No, of course not. But how would that paralegal get access to that message? Are you suggesting that this was given to the attorney and that a paralegal got ahold of it? Do know the kind of breach of ethics it entails? Would you retain an attorney who let this happen? If this is the case, why don't we hear more messages of cell phones of celebrities?

We are all speculating here. We do know that Baldwin is being pilloried and has been denied virtually any contact with his child. The Basinger team has already used this as a weapon to deny him total contact with the child. Who benefits here?

74 posted on 04/27/2007 12:06:51 PM PDT by Nachum
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To: stylecouncilor

ping


75 posted on 04/27/2007 12:07:46 PM PDT by windcliff
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To: BackInBlack
"this alienation thing is a real phenomenon"

Sure, but the only reason this article was written is because the father in question is a liberal darling.....

Replace Baldwin with Clarence Thomas and imagine the way this article would change....

When does his plane leave for France again?

76 posted on 04/27/2007 12:11:31 PM PDT by glasseye
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To: tiki; All; PercivalWalks
So has your ex tried to alienate your kids, taken out restraining orders, refused to let you see your kids, stood in the background and told your kids what to say to you including very nasty stuff and on and on?Has she accused you of physical abuse? Honestly, we despise Alec, but we haven’t walked in his shoes?

You missed, "moved her place of residence/pickup spot without telling you, thus completely eliminating your ability to see your child for months at a time." You also missed had "your 7 year old taking MORE drugs and of greater quantities that Crystal Magnum had in her system." You also missed "accused/filed in court that you AND your new wife committed child abuse". You also missed "filed false police reports stating you are selling drugs out of you home." You also missed, "made multiple reports to Child Protective Services stating you have abused/NEGLECTED your child, your home is a crack house, your home is a meth lab." You also missed "had her current boyfriend call your work/home and come to your front door and issue death treats against you and your family."

All of what you mentioned, and what I just mentioned, I have been through. There is no doubt in my mind that Bassinger is an evil manipulative beyotch. And I, like Baldwin, am a total hothead. My pseudonym is not who I am, it is who I want to be.

In spite of everything I went/am going through, I never left threatening messages on my ex's phone calling her or my son names.

Baldwin is getting to experience the world he helped create and nurture. These Hollywood a-holes have dedicated their lives to supporting democrat socialism for all us minions. And now they bitch, and expect us to be empathetic when this same system that they continue to blindly support treats them exactly as it treats us regular people.

Given this and the Henry Hyde comments, which I watched live as it happend, Baldwin and Bassinger can both rot in hell as far as I am concerned. This poor girl is going to have to die from a drug overdose before these two selfish retards can even attempt to come to understand the damage they are JOINTLY causing this girl.

Hey, Alec, if you want to get even with Kim Bassinger, just leak to the press the court ordered physiactric report done on you and her. That will bring her crazy arse into negotiations faster than you can call for the murder of a Republican politician.

77 posted on 04/27/2007 12:20:47 PM PDT by Diplomat
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To: PercivalWalks

Sounds like there are three children in that family. Two of them are the parents.


78 posted on 04/27/2007 12:22:53 PM PDT by TBP
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To: Diplomat
Hey, Alec, if you want to get even with Kim Bassinger, just leak to the press the court ordered physiactric report done on you and her. That will bring her crazy arse into negotiations faster than you can call for the murder of a Republican politician.

"Next time, Jack, write a goddam memo -- and don't take a dump without a plan."

Alec's Jacobinite call for an assassination was utterly despicable.

79 posted on 04/27/2007 12:26:33 PM PDT by You Dirty Rats (I Love Free Republic!)
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To: You Dirty Rats

“The weakness of fathers in our society is one of the main reasons—perhaps the most important reason—why this country is in a crisis IMHO. It’s bad for men, worse for women, and a complete disaster for kids...”

Truer words were never spoken. We have the perfect example of that in Philadelphia where by 11 p.m. Tuesday they had 127 homicides so far this year, with 11 just last weekend. These are mostly young black men shooting, with many innocents being in the wrong place at the wrong time. In almost every case, the mother is the one grieving, rarely is a father present or mentioned. In my opinion, the anger these young men feel over being truly abandoned by their fathers consumes their entire short lives.


80 posted on 04/27/2007 12:27:54 PM PDT by GoldwaterChick (Never give in, never give in, never, never, never give in. Winston Churchill Oct. 29, 1941)
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To: Politicalmom

You are passing judgment based on your personal biases not on the facts.

Alec Baldwin has every right to be a jackass. He even has a right to berate his daughter in public or in private. I don’t need to like it or agree with it but it is his prerogative to do so.

What the father does not have a right to, is to berate the mother to the child, any more than the mother has the right to berate the father to the child. If the parents wish to berate each other in public the are free to do that.

The issue at hand is not his parenting habits, it is the estrangement of the daughter based on emotional manipulation of the custodial parent being inflicted on a mind unable to determine the difference. The non-custodial parent unable to retrieve the child to discuss the issues face to face. Unless you have been in Baldwin’s shoes (and I have been there) you are incapable of understanding how this man is being hurt and humiliated, not by his daughter, but by the ex-wife via the daughter. The tirade may have been directed at the daughter, but the daughter was not intended target.

This is a classic case of n Munchausen by Proxy Syndrome, an individual - usually a mother - deliberately makes another person sick or convinces others that the person is sick. The parent or caregiver misleads others into thinking that the child has medical problems by lying and reporting fictitious episodes. He or she may exaggerate, fabricate, or induce symptoms. As a result, doctors usually order tests, try different types of medications, and may even hospitalize the child or perform surgery to determine the cause.

Typically, the perpetrator feels satisfied when he or she has the attention and sympathy of doctors, nurses, and others who come into contact with him or her and the child. Some experts believe that it isn’t just the attention that’s gained from the “illness” of the child that drives this behavior, but there is satisfaction gained by the perpetrator in being able to deceive individuals that they consider to be more important and powerful than themselves.

Because the parent or caregiver appears to be so caring and attentive, often no one suspects any wrongdoing. A perplexing aspect of the syndrome is the ability of the parent or caregiver to fool and manipulate doctors. Frequently, the perpetrator is familiar with the medical profession and is very good at fooling the doctors. Even the most experienced doctors can miss the meaning of the inconsistencies in the child’s symptoms. It’s not unusual for medical personnel to overlook the possibility of Munchausen by Proxy Syndrome because it goes against the belief that a parent or caregiver would never deliberately hurt his or her child.

Does Kim Basinger’s behavior fit the bill here? I think so.


81 posted on 04/27/2007 12:28:00 PM PDT by Ouderkirk (Don't you think it's interesting how death and destruction seems to happen wherever Muslims gather.)
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To: Nachum
Of course it's all speculation...which is why I asked if you were certain Basinger released it...your #17 said so in affirmative terms, and the last I heard, Basinger denied having released it. I'm assuming Basinger turned the recording over to her attorney. Any responsible attorney would have made a copy of it before preparing its submission to the court. Depending on the format in which Basinger provided the attorney, it's very possible that the law office was not prepared or equipped to duplicate the recording and had it outsourced. No doubt the attorney had their paralegal prepare the documentation to present to the court. The judge's clerks and file clerks in the family court likewise, would have had generally unfettered access to the file and enclosures.

There are several lower paid persons in the loop here who could have been tempted by a lucrative offer for a copy of the tape, and realizing what they had, may have even shopped around for the best offer...

Of course their would have been a violation of ethics, but as we know, money all too often trumps that in our society.

Yes, it's speculation on my part that somebody besides Basinger released the recording, but it's speculation on your part that Basinger did it herself. Moreover, Basinger did not need a public release of the recording to benefit from it in regards to the custody issue, and assuming she's a responsible parent, would have resisted the unwanted attention it brought to her daughter.

I think it's just as likely (if not moreso) that others in the loop had more to gain in their relative personal circumstances, and TMZ.com certainly had enough to gain from the notoriety/publicity to probably pay a fairly handsome sum for it.

82 posted on 04/27/2007 12:37:55 PM PDT by Joe 6-pack
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To: PercivalWalks
VIDEO ON VIEW

Remember, Baldwin is an actor, so when does the acting stop and the real Baldwin appear?

Recently at an awards' ceremony, Baldwin did a media interview highlighting the gift of his award to his daughter who was on his arm that night. Most recent he had also appeared on many Talk Shows talking about his daughter specifically. I personally thought, before all the HOOPLA' there was something going on behind the scenes; as this had not been his MO in the past, and she is now 11. Where were all the acclamations in the past interviews? I thought: "Thou Dost Protest Too Much", scenario?

Basinger, however; lives a pretty secluded life, out of the limelight and keeps her politics to herself. Basinger did divorce Mr. Balwin on grounds of physical and mental abuse. Basinger claims the message is also not an isolated incident.

Also, remember Baldwin's co-star, Jan Maxwell, in "Entertaining Mr. Sloane" left the show under similar charges, refusing to work with him and had to be replaced.

Maxwell wrote, "The bottom line was my physical safety, mental health and artistic integrity - none of which Roundabout was supporting." The actress claimed the star put his fist through a wall during an argument about on stage air conditioning and was "throwing things around with all of us cowering."

Baldwin was reportedly a "tyrant" to Sarah Michelle Geller and the rest of the crew on the set of their new movie --The "Fun with Dick and Jane".

This is a pattern folks! Baldwin's temper is legendary.

He called Vice President Dick Cheney "a terrorist, and claimed that "he terrorizes our enemies abroad and innocent citizens here at home indiscriminately.".[5] He later recanted this statement, saying that Cheney was not a terrorist but rather "a lying, thieving oil whore and a murderer of the U.S. Constitution".[6] In his blog he wrote to his fans that < I>Bush was a "trust fund puppet" and Cheney a "constitution hating sociopath" and a "hate-filled maniac".[7] Baldwin talked about the harm he believes Bush did to democracy by comparing the presidential election of 2000 to the September 11, 2001 attacks: "I know that's a harsh thing to say, perhaps, but I believe that what happened in 2000 did as much damage to the pillars of democracy as terrorists did to the pillars of commerce in New York City." [6]

Both, Baldwin (May 18'Brooklyn Rules,' and Kim (MAY 18 'Even Money') have films coming out on the same day in the very near future..will supporters choose sides.

His future, often discussed with friends: Baldwin: "If I ever ran for anything, the thing I would like to be is governor of New York... That's what I hate about Arnold Schwarzenegger. His only credentials are that he ran a fitness program under some bygone president...I'm Tocqueville compared to Schwarzenegger." When asked why not be governor of California, Baldwin replied: "Then I would have to live in California. And who wants to live in California?"

The baby of the family, Stephen , Born Again Christian travels a different road. About why he liked Bush, Stephen said: "He's a believer in Jesus Christ. And you have to understand this; I have family members who would contest what I am saying right now."
Story and Audio

83 posted on 04/27/2007 12:38:22 PM PDT by fight_truth_decay
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To: stubernx98
I am very sorry for your troubles. Your grandson needs to find an attorney willing to buck this “MOM and only MOM” system. Mr. X and I both realized that the lawyers were scr#wing our family for the money when each side suggested that we drag the kids through the mud.

It is difficult to think about that time in our lives, but we put our kids ahead of the monetary issues, and found out that the “LEGAL LEECHES” were making out like bandits on our misery. Divorce is just so damn easy in this country.
If the lawyers hadn’t been there to feed off the “blood in the water,” the divorce would have never happened. If your grandson is amenable, you could try arbitration. Many states have this now, since divorce is so common. Strangely enough, I met the most honourable lawyers through this process. My kids were shielded from the most base accusations on both sides, and our kids never felt that they were merely pawns. End result...neither I or Mr. X were wiling to part with the family home. Six months later, we were still living in the same house and we then realized that our “divorce” was simply a furious fight gone bad. It's not for everyone, but this is what happened to us. If you make "DIVORCE" an viable choice, then perhaps you will see that the undoing of a Sacred Marriage is not the answer to the troubles you face at the moment. It's for better or worse...what people don't get is that Marriage is Sacred.

84 posted on 04/27/2007 12:44:46 PM PDT by ishabibble (ALL AMERICAN INFIDEL)
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To: BackInBlack

Kim didn’t make Alec call his own daughter a fat little pig. He’s unstable and now the proof is out there for anybody who cares.


85 posted on 04/27/2007 12:47:04 PM PDT by Hatteras (I'm a sweetheart, genius, a reckless jerk. Lord have mercy, I'm a piece of work...)
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To: Nachum

I’m not really disagreeing with you that much..he just took it out on the wrong person..If he had simply told her how much he loved her, how proud he was of her, but how disapointed he was that he didn’t get to speak with her,I believe he would have gotten a phone call back..With him, its all about him and his inconvenience..I’m sure he loves his daughter and its a shame that he and other Dad’s are put in this situation but it still doesn’t excuse him calling her a pig..


86 posted on 04/27/2007 12:57:43 PM PDT by bestrongbpositive
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To: beeber

Thank you!

68 posts. Sad, really.


87 posted on 04/27/2007 1:03:01 PM PDT by Lee'sGhost (Crom! Non-Sequitur = Pee Wee Herman.)
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To: PercivalWalks

I know first hand what it is to have one parent trying to distance the kids from the father, we can’t even mention his name around her, she leaves the room.
While Baldwin obviously has anger management problems and should not take his frustration out on his daughter, I wonder what Bassinger’s role in the situation is.

Sad when parents’ hate for each other is greater than their love for their kids. It’s no fun being caught in the middle and made to feel we should choose one parent over the other, when the problems they had were between them.


88 posted on 04/27/2007 1:18:15 PM PDT by psjones (u)
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To: PercivalWalks
Baldwin claims that his outburst occurred in the context of Basinger alienating Ireland and trying to drive him out of his daughter’s life.

Okay, well, let's blame the 11 year old for the behavior of her mother and destroy her further through ranting and raving at her like a maniacal moron. Yeah, that makes sense. The child was victimized by these two people already, so let's further victimize her. Good move Alec, you self-absorbed uncaring, poor excuse for a father.

89 posted on 04/27/2007 1:28:24 PM PDT by SoldierDad (Proud Father of a 2nd BCT 10th Mountain Soldier fighting the terrorists in Iraq)
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To: Ouderkirk; You Dirty Rats

This is an excellent post, very well stated. As the grandmother I can attest to the bitterness of an ex-wife who uses manipulation of the children to get back at their father and wonder how any mother who loves her children can destroy them in this way.

The answer is she hates her ex-husband more than she loves her children.


90 posted on 04/27/2007 1:38:01 PM PDT by GoldwaterChick (Never give in, never give in, never, never, never give in. Winston Churchill Oct. 29, 1941)
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To: texan75010
I don't know, I know that in my personal acquaintance with a case like this, the father never violated the restraining order, she was and is constantly in violation of court order and the court does nothing. You obviously had a good court and didn't have to live through the frustration of it all, at least you were able to spend time with your children and not denied them even against court orders.

They were also allowed 1 character witness each, the ex-husband had a man who had known him for years, the wife used someone who was 19 yrs old and who had only known her for 4 months, but that didn't matter to the court, the girl gave a glowing testimony of a saint. Honest to God, the woman couldn't use anyone who really knew her because they'd have had to lie in court and they all knew it.

She has won because she was led by a psychologist aunt telling her every move to make. My acquaintance's in-laws thought he was the better parent until the ex convinced them that he was abusing the kids and implied sexual abuse.

Like you, this man hasn't lost it, he's done everything he was supposed to do but still the court punishes him and rewards this alcoholic, promiscious, witch. I'm pretty sure he hasn't called his kids names but I can say that he has called the wife a few.

So you are one of the lucky ones, she wasn't able to pull of the alienation thing, she might not have had the intellect. You won and hopefully, your children won and you're a little smug with it.

As I said, it isn't alright to call your kid a pig, but when you've been pushed to the edge by psychological tricks and parental alienation and the courts for 5 freakin' years, then you come and tell me that you have walked in his shoes. I'm not excusing what he did, I am understanding why he might have done it.

91 posted on 04/27/2007 1:40:35 PM PDT by tiki
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To: tiki

I hate thinking I am one of the lucky ones...but my kids are old enough in the eyes of the court to make up their own mind so witnesses aside, it all came down to what they wanted and my ex hated me for it every step of the way but honestly she treated them like possessions instead of people and she still does. She cant understand why they dont hate me like she does.

I know it seems like everything is set up against men and I know there is frustration out there. I just dont like it when a kid gets dumped on.


92 posted on 04/27/2007 1:58:04 PM PDT by texan75010
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To: ishabibble

My husband went through a similar situation with his x-wife and children. Having been divorced for years and lived with the hurt my x-husband’s neglect of my children caused them, when we married I insisted the his children would be a priority (mine are grown). In some cases, I carried the ball with the court because he was just too devastated emotionally during that time period.

The good news is that we have the children almost every weekend and my husband is able to work at rebuilding those relationships. Both children have suffered and continue to suffer by the situation between their parents - I don’t know if you can ever completely heal that hurt - maybe the best you get is the ability to live with it and go on with your life.


93 posted on 04/27/2007 1:58:33 PM PDT by Roses0508
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To: PercivalWalks

This is no ones business except for this family or should I say, former family. I think because someone has made a few movies, or played professional ball, or made a few records, is no reason for every aspect of their personal life to be interesting or discussed in the media.


94 posted on 04/27/2007 2:06:28 PM PDT by Ditter
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To: PercivalWalks
Look, I'm not saying what Baldwin did was right, quite the contrary. If any of you, like me, have been through a mean spirited divorce, where children are inlvolved, you might be able to understand his frustration. One of the parents tries to turn the children against the other parent. It has probably been happening to him and he got fed up and vented, unfortunately and incorrectly, toward his daughter. His anger should have been pointed to his soon-to-be ex-wife, never the child.

Again, I'm not defending him, but a lot us probaly understand how he felt.

95 posted on 04/27/2007 2:12:09 PM PDT by Bushbacker1 (Kill 'em til they're dead! Then, kill 'em again!)
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To: machogirl

physical abuse is a whole different ballgame.


96 posted on 04/27/2007 4:16:29 PM PDT by BackInBlack ("The act of defending any of the cardinal virtues has today all the exhilaration of a vice.")
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To: glasseye

“Replace Baldwin with Clarence Thomas and imagine the way this article would change....”

Yeah: the liberal blogosphere would have been saying exactly what the conservative blogosphere has been saying, and we’d be the ones pointing out the mitigating circumstances instead of them. Which is fine — it’s not our job to take down our own, nor is it the liberals’ job to take down alec baldwin.


97 posted on 04/27/2007 4:19:18 PM PDT by BackInBlack ("The act of defending any of the cardinal virtues has today all the exhilaration of a vice.")
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To: Hatteras

Maybe so, though she violated a court order (and her daughter’s privacy) in leaking it. Does breaking the law somehow not matter?


98 posted on 04/27/2007 4:20:57 PM PDT by BackInBlack ("The act of defending any of the cardinal virtues has today all the exhilaration of a vice.")
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To: Bushbacker1

Yup, I’ve experienced it, and I’m with you on all counts — with the added thought that her leaking it to the press was probably worse in the grand scheme of things. He could have tried to make it up to his daughter, but now the event is permanent.


99 posted on 04/27/2007 4:22:43 PM PDT by BackInBlack ("The act of defending any of the cardinal virtues has today all the exhilaration of a vice.")
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To: ishabibble
Alec Baldwin was willing to fly out to LA for one day to “straighten her a@@ out”.

Actually he said 'On Friday I'm going to get on a plane. Fly our to LA to straighten your a@@ out, then turn around and fly straight back home.'

What a prince!

100 posted on 04/27/2007 6:13:19 PM PDT by Oztrich Boy (No.. I said he was a Korean student, not a Koran student)
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