Wow, Herzliya, home of the Herzliya conference.
Tel Aviv 15 years before your Great Grandfather made his purchase.
Today
Posted on 11/17/2007 9:31:32 PM PST by Psychic Dice
Who is the rightful owner of the land now occupied by Israel? Anyone interested in a fair solution to the Palestian/Israeli question has to ask this question.
Back in the 1970s Joan Peters was a liberal who set out to prove that American policies were the cause of conflicts going on there. Two years into her research she realize that she had it wrong. Her book From Time Immemorial (The Origins Of The Arab Jewish Conflict Over Palestine) details what she discovered.
It is a tome (600 pages) and isn’t a recent release. Although I remember its 1984 publication, I didn’t read it until two year ago.
To be honest, most Jews don’t know this history – especially the young who have recently gone through American universities. Many of them believe that underneath it all the Israelis ripped off the Arabs. Peters documents a very different history.
Peters discovered that the Arab propaganda machine had - for some time - been convincing the West of three lies: • 1) The Jews and Arabs got along famously for the last 1,200 years before the Zionists came along. • 2) Millions of Arabs had owned and worked the land of Palestine from time immemorial. • 3) The Jews drove those millions off their land in 1948.
Having researched thousand of sources: British libraries, Ottoman and other Muslim records, many living Jews and Muslims (including Yasser Arafat), Winston Churchill, even Mark Twain, Peters shows that: • 1) Every Muslim country perpetuated third or fourth class citizenship on its Jewish populations for 12 centuries through habitual mass murders, rapes, extortion, theft, beatings, lies, and many other special rules that would make the Third Reich proud. • 2) Islam reduced the thriving population of the Holy Land (including what is now Jordan) from millions in the 8th Century to mere hundreds of thousands as it over and over and over and over again and again and again and again looted it - until most of the land was owned by three families of Syrians in Damascus. In 1887, 60,000 Jews and a couple thousand less Muslims (only 28,000 of which were Bedouin Arabs who were nomadic, not land owners) lived within the boundaries of what would become the modern day Israel. • 3) In 1948, the only Muslims who were not allowed to return to their land after seven Islamic countries declared war on Israel were the ones who had left Israel to fight against the Jews.
From Time Immemorial documents precisely why the Israelis are right and why we are right to back them.
>>I can tell you who I think owns Israel as my Great Grandfather who lived in Missouri purchased land in Israel in 1926 from a company that was helping set up farming communities there.
That’s one of the things that Joan Peters figured out - that most of modern day Israel was purchased from the Muslim owners, most of whom were three families of Syrians in Damascus.
One of the things that complicated transparency of those transactions was that the Muslims who sold the land did not want to be killed by other Islamics for doing so. Syria and many other Muslim countries had laws against selling to Jews, so many of the deals were secret (but well documented).
The word Zion is in the name of the bank you referenced. Often Hertzel is demonized by modern Arabs for his Zionist back to Israel movement.
Joan Peters discovered that for 1,200 years Arabs abused “their” Jews so terribly that those Jews often prayed for redemption by returning to Israel. She documents contact between them and Hertzel. It was they who implored and inspired him, not the other way around. In this interpretation, the brutality of the Arabs necessitated modern Israel.
Some of the Jews in Arab countries were backwards by at least a thousand years. At one point the Israeli air force rescues a group of them. Because they had never seen a plane before they thought that their prayers had been answered as they were magically lifted through the air. In fact, the pilots had to put out the fire they built on the floor of the plane.
High Volume. Articles on Israel can also be found by clicking on the Topic or Keyword Israel. or WOT [War on Terror]
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I'm sick to my stomach of the non-Theistic reasons that are given for every position in existence nowadays.
Ultimately, to believe in G-d is to be a Theocrat. And the only thing that can be said to objectors is "tough nuggies."
That's the official liberal line, but it's the American "hell-fire" preachers who have supported Jewish claims to Israel for over three hundred years. And the "deicide" charge has never been big among American Fundamentalist Protestants.
Well there were some. Just like there were Protestants that ran down Catholics, and probably Catholics that ran down Protestants. This has been a blessed nation for Jews to live in because of our tradition of religious tolerance, not established to protect Jews or Muslims or Hindus from Christians, but to leave behind the European horror of inter-denominational persecution.
BTW, if you want to hear a Protestant preacher argue against Jews I could probably find one, though I can't guarantee it will be down south.
Wow, Herzliya, home of the Herzliya conference.
Tel Aviv 15 years before your Great Grandfather made his purchase.
Today
Just a guess: most of the land titles have Jews as owners.
>>Isn’t possession 9/10ths of the law?
My title didn’t quite ask what I meant. In the past I was trying to find out who ethically and historically had a right to modern Israel.
Agreed, possession is 9/10ths. History is fraught with examples. Neanderthals can make a better case than Cro Mags that Europe belongs to them, but there are none to tell it to the judge.
A lot of Jews and a whole lot more Arabs claim a right to the land that is now Israel. This matters because they are constantly at war. I wanted to figure out whether my country’s support of Israel was just or whether as the Arabs claim we are propping up greedy, kick ass Europeans who are taking advantage of unsuspecting, naive, poor Muslims.
Joan Peter’s book From Time Immemorial answered my question.
God (Yahweh).
I think that's the KKK version of Christianity.Not one I've ever heard preached.
My questions is what is going on with this FR cohort? Why is it so quiet? Time was when the names on your ping list practically dominated this board. Now I don't hear much.
I am wondering if this reflects a disgruntlement with the realistic options for a GOP standard-bearer in the next elections?
Three hundred years? I'd have dated those crazy Zionist Protestants to the early/mid 1800s. What and who am I missing, in terms of possession of the land, because I acknowledge you know more about this than I do.
Sergei, nice to meet you. You've been here, what, five months now, and somehow you know all about my "cohert" on FR.
the names on your ping list practically dominated this board, I presume that's an admission you're a computor hacker, breaking into FRs archive. I say that because, well, on posts only 7 names appear when I do a ping, and only 3 of them still post here. And your contension that those three dominate this board is absurd.
So you know a lot that no one else knows.
So what do you think?
Is there some kind of mysterious conspiracy going on here.
As to GOP standard bearers, imo all of them, save the surrender monkey Paul, are more pro Israel than GWB, so your conspiracy fails there.
Fun talking.
Sorry, forgot to mention since you don’t keep up on religion, I’d guess the majority of the people on my mideast ping list are, well, Christian. Probably the lunatic right wing Zionist variety, I admit.
Well you are quick to get a big attitude where there was no hostile intent whatsoever. I am merely interested in how things are playing with various segments of the Republican and FR community. I assure you that I will not disturb you again with my impertinence.
I'd be glad to provide answer if I had one. Your question was rather vague.
To my knowledge there's never been a time when my "cohert" dominated this board, you'd have to provide a more specific example for me to respond.
As an American Infidel, I’m biased.... Interesting thread.
As a Christian, I’m more concerned about Jewish attitudes towards my culture today.
There are some like Savage and Medved and Lapin who are quite warm and many Conervative and Orthodox but most Reformed don’t much cotton to Christian Conservatism
even here.
Given our supersupport for Israel, this vexes me. Plenty of we social conservatives support Israel for cultural reasons...not religious.
That I am not on the same page as most American Jews is just how it is....probably since the early 1900s
The Zionists purchased only 7% of Palestine.
I can't speak for everyone, but I've been on SJackon's ping list for a pretty long time.
I still read the posts pinged to me, and still take an interest.
However, I no longer comment as much, firstly, due to a heart condition developed about 2 years ago, causing me to "cut back" on stressful situations and conversations.
Secondly, I have pretty much stated my opinions repeatedly, ( sometimes heatedly ) and see no need to constantly repeat myself.
Besides, then I'd have to read the comments and replies to my comment, and might be tempted to correct someone's view of the world.
I might be tempted to call them a "bonehead", or worse.
I might get upset and jeopardize my health.
It's just not worth the effort.
As for the GOP's chances of winning, it really hasn't got much to do with the Israel issue, in my opinion.
Israel has survived Jimmy Carter and Bill Clinton, so I doubt there is much someone like Hillary or Obama could do.
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