Camera captures wolves killing lambs in Oregon

Associated Press ^ | Apr 16, 2009 | Jeff Barnard

[decimon]

A motion-detector camera has photographed two wolves killing lambs on a ranch in Eastern Oregon — the first documented wolf attack on livestock in Oregon since they started moving into the state in 1999.

[decimon]

Picture at link.

[areukiddingme1]

Did the lambs misunderstand the invitation from the wolves about having dinner.../s

[Cold Heart]

anti-freeze

Wrong thread, I thought this was automotive.

[DieHard the Hunter]

(shrugs) A dog’s gotta eat somehow...

> Jacobs said photos of the wolves and their tracks will go into his claim for $7,300 in compensation from Defenders of Wildlife, a conservation group supporting the return of wolves to Oregon. In all he had 23 lambs killed, and others too injured to be sold.

$7,300 for 23 lambs??? That’s US$317 per head! Where I come from (NZ) that’s expensive lamb.

[Just another Joe]

That money is to pay for the, "Silence of the Lambs".

Sorry, couldn't resist.

[DieHard the Hunter]

(BIG GRIN!) That’s Hell Funny!

[Little Ray]

Americans don’t eat a lotta lamb (I know - along with rabbits, we’re missin’ some good food).
So, maybe they’re payin’ for the wool over the life of the lamb?

[r9etb]

The relevant quote:

Wolf coordinator Russ Morgan mounted four motion-detector cameras on fence posts in hopes of catching the wolves walking by and looking in. Some carcasses were put out to attract the wolves.

Monday morning, Jacobs, 52, found the wolves had come back and killed more lambs. One of the cameras captured a photo of two wolves looking right at it, with dead lambs at their feet.

Not doubting that the wolves killed the lambs.... But the article states that on this particular evening, "some carcasses were put out to attract the wolves."

Looking at the picture, and the positioning of those two lambs, I'd say that this is a picture of the wolves sniffing around the carcasses that were pre-placed.

It's almost certainly not a picture of the lambs that the wolves subsequently killed.

[Frantzie]

The ranchers need these:

http://www.sheep101.info/guarddogs.html

The great white herding dogs of Europe. Beautiful dogs who bond with and protect sheep, goats, etc. Gentle with animals they protect but fierce defenders.

“Some of the more common breeds used in the U.S. include Great Pyrenees (from France), Akbash and Anatolian Shepherd (from Turkey), Komondor (from Hungary), Maremma (from Italy), and Tibetan Mastiff (from Tibet).”

Also the Kuvaz from Hungary. The Great Pyrenees is descended from the Kuvaz and Maremmo-Abruzze aka Maremma.

Note how the dogs coat color matches the sheep to keep the rpedators guessing. A lot like CCW gun owners. The criminals never know who is armed.

[NVDave]

We had a Kuvasz. They’re fantastic dogs. Smarter than any other breed I’ve ever come across. Hard as rock, can run at 35 MPH, they are the size of a wolf.

Many sheepmen in Nevada run maremma/pyr crosses.

[microgood]

This happens in Wyoming all the time. Wolves are one of the species that kill for the sport of it. The last article I saw in Wyoming they came in and killed about 25 sheep and only ate on 2 of them.

[crazyhorse691]

In an effort to achieve a balance of nature desirable for the Wolf and to preserve the ecosystem for the grandchildren of the world President Zero will immediately extend via ,wilderness designation protection, 100 mile no-human-zones around actual and theoretical Wolf tracks and poop.

[DieHard the Hunter]

> Americans don’t eat a lotta lamb (I know - along with rabbits, we’re missin’ some good food).

True: but America does make excellent lamb by world standards. It tends to be more fatty than NZ lamb, which tends to be extra-lean. But the extra fat adds more robust flavors. And American lamb tends to be larger: the so-called "steak quality" that American lamb producers often refer to.

American lamb cooked slowly on a spit with Greek spices rubbed in, basted with a peeled lemon dunked in olive oil on a stick: beautiful food, particularly at Easter time. Nothing nicer!

> So, maybe they’re payin’ for the wool over the life of the lamb?

Usually the price of the wool is factored in to the price of the lamb when it is slaughtered. Normally this takes the form of the animal's hide, as they don't normally shear the lambs post mortem.

Now, I'm a townie so I may be reading these prices wrong. The price for a heavy lamb ex Yard here in NZ seems to be about forty bucks all up...

[Little Ray]

Dunno. $317 for lamb sounds like a lot of money to me, too. Wool over the lifetime of the lamb/sheep was the only thing I could come up with.
Maybe the Feds pay retail?

[Frantzie]

I know someone who has a neighbor with two Great Pyrenees. I once met a Maremma. Just incredibly beautiful dogs. 35 mph! That is a big train coming at you. Will they keep wolves and other predators at bay?

Just beautiful. I have seen pics of Maremmas laying in the grass in the hills with the little lambs.

[CommerceComet]

We are beginning to find out why our ancestors tried to get rid of wolves. Canada and Alaska have enough wolves that we don’t need any here in the continental U. S. They aren’t going to go extinct any time soon. Same is true of grizzly bears.

[NVDave]

One on one, yes, they will. One dog against a pack, about all he can do is raise the alarm.

They’re white death on coyotes in Nevada tho. You’ve heard of all this “alpha roll” nonsense from dog trainers? Well, when you see a real alpha dog do it to another domestic dog, you see that what wolves and real alpha dogs do isn’t anything like what these dog trainers are telling people to do. Our Kuv picked up a golden retriever who had the lack of sense to mark territory on our farm by the neck, flipped it into the air and slammed it on the ground. It looked like something you see on a WWF event. The golden retriever (sweet dog, wouldn’t hurt a fly, but not terribly bright marking on another dog’s turf) instantly said “OK, you’re the boss!” and they were buddy-buddy instantly.

Seeing what these dogs do to coyotes, tho, is very different. They pick up a coyote by the neck, flip it one way off to the side, then whip their head back the other way, snapping the coyote’s neck. I don’t think they could pull that off with a wolf, which will weigh about the same as the Kuvasz.

When I say they’ll do 35MPH — that’s not some BS estimate, inflated by bragging. No, that’s from me on a Honda ATV, with a digital speedometer, gunning my throttle to catch up to our Kuvasz who was chasing down a coyote across our fields. He saw this thing from hundreds of yards away, lit the afterburners and went for it. I saw this start, grabbed a rifle and went after him. He held it against a fence for me to shoot it. They’re really smart dogs that way - he reckoned if I was going to do the dirty work, there was no point getting all dirty and chewed up. But headed across flat ground, he was doing every bit of 35MPH for over a half mile. Fortunately, the top speed of the ATV was 45MPH, and I could catch up to him - then I paced him at 35MPH at the end of this chase.

All of these flock guarding dogs are wonderful dogs, but I would not recommend them to people who live in cities. They’re highly protective, and they’ll protect your family very well and capably, but they want to expand their territory. The dogs in Nevada tend to roam around two square miles of territory they call their ‘home turf.’ We never allowed ours out of the yard without one of us by his side. The sheep dogs would stay with the flocks. Left to their own devices (eg, after October, when the lambs had been shipped), the pyr/maremmas would start roaming and getting into trouble in other people’s yards - a couple miles from the home base of the farm.

I tell people to think of owning one of these dogs pretty much the same way they’d be living if they had a live-in Marine corporal in their house. No greater friend to you, no greater threat to an intruder. And “intruders” are determined on his terms, not yours. So if some shifty salesman stops by, and you think he’s a shifty SOB, but not worth killing, guess what? The dog might not understand the “not worth attacking” part of this evaluation. They’ll pick up on your body language and voice tone, arrive at a conclusion and want to stand between you and the shifty salesman at the door. One wrong move by the salesman and it’s ‘game on’ for the guard dog.

But for people who are OK, whom you introduce and who aren’t scared of big dogs? Oh, they’re huge lovable furballs. Just complete suck-ups. Imagine 120lbs of dog gradually moving his upper body onto your lap to get maximum smoochies.

We miss our big furball every day. The biggest problem with all of them is that they have a short lifespan. There’s no justice in a world where useless yappy dogs that fit in a purse live to be 20, and useful dogs barely make it to 12.

[NVDave]

That would be a fair value if the sheepman was going to raise them to be replacement ewes.

Every year, a livestock operator has to replace “X” percentage of their herd/flock. I’ll use an example from sheep operators I know in Nevada. A band of about 1,000 ewes (white-faced sheep, Ram/Merino crosses) will usually need to replace about 200 of those ewes in any given year.

There are two ways to do this: buy replacement ewes (and there are smaller operators who breed for the replacement markets, paying attention to genetics and wool quality), or the lamb producer can hold some of his flock’s female lambs back for replacements. This would be ‘line breeding’ and is something that has upsides and downsides for the producer.

Many producers any more buy their replacement stock. It is a lot of work to sort out the old animals that go down the road at the end of the season, and then sort for the characteristics you want out of your own lamb crop.

[NVDave]

Oh — and the wool income from sheep is pitiful. Ram/Merino cross, or pure Merino wool — might come to about $8 per greasy fleece. Basically, even the high quality white-faced fleeces will only cover the costs of shearing and meds for the ewe.

For the coarser wools from black-faced sheep (eg, Suffolks), you might as well resign yourself to using the fleece to fill ditches and holes. And you’re going to be completely out of the pocket on shearing costs - about $4/head if you hire it done by the roaming Aussie/Kiwi crews in the west.

[Little Ray]

So the Feds were paying for the value of future lambs.
Thank you for clarifying. I would have never figured that out...