Skip to comments.The Hobbit Hole XXXVIII - There and Back Again!
Posted on 09/23/2009 6:19:16 AM PDT by HairOfTheDog
Welcome to The Hobbit Hole!
Thank you! I don’t post much but I am always here (open tab ya know)...
Here they are:
The little one is 6in long. It is an SWR Mfg. "Spectre" 22LR. It is also good for .223, 17HMR, 22WMR and 5.7mm. I've already shot this one with my Ruger Mk3 and it is [sigh]... wonderful. :-)
The bigger one is from "Advanced Armament Corp."and is the "Evolution .45" model. It is made for .45 ACP but will also work for 40SW, 9mm, and anything else similar.
The thing that really drove me to these two is that unlike many of the others on the market both of these are user-serviceable. Many of the suppressors on the market are sealed-- and cannot be cleaned. The only way to clean them is to send them off to the manufacturer. Don't like that.
Both of these are user-cleanable. They just unscrew and all the parts come open. Not that you'd clean them all that often. The manual even says that some coating of soot and powder residue actually helps with the suppression task. They only recommend cleaning after every 1000 rounds or so.
I'm all set for the .22 stuff. The guy at the gun shop is chasing down some threaded barrels for my various .45s, and my 9mm. Hopefully will have some good news there soon. :-)
Did you have a smoke afterwards? :)
I'm told a good suppressor on a Ruger makes it sound like dropping the hammer on an empty chamber.
I'm not too familiar with SWC, but AAC is high on my wish list. A lot will depend on what my buddy scares up at the SHOT show.
ooooh Kay... Got in some range time with the new .22 and suppressor today. Just... Wow. Its even quieter than I remembered from last summer. Good grief. You’re right about it sounding like a hammer falling on an empty chamber. That, along with a very pleasant “Pfft” and holes just silently appear in the paper. Any quieter and I think you could hear the paper tearing down range.
And yes... I did have a cigarette afterwards. :-)
I used a rest to sight in the Trijicon red-dot, and opted to zero it on 10 yards. I figure that’s a typical backyard vermin distance. There’s quite a lot of parallax with that sight, because it sits fairly high. With zero at 10, it is about an inch low at 7 and two inches high at 20 yards. Sometime I’ll try it outdoors to find out where the far zero is. My wild guess is that it’ll peak out at 3 or so inches by 50 yards and be back down to zero at 80 or 90... But that’s pushing the limits of serviceable range for a pistol I think.
I figure for most critters from 20 to 60 yards... Just hold a couple inches low (as if that was within my skill level anyway...) and it should be usefully on target.
This is only third-hand, but apparently a little simple machine work will allow you to install a couple of hard plastic buffer pads inside the Ruger to kill the metal-on-metal sound. I'll be looking into that when I actually "achieve can".
And remember, when you have a new hammer, everything else starts looking like a nail. :)
First, the replacement of a generic buffer tube on my M4E(economy) did not produce a noticeable change in accuracy, one way or another. This is good news, because it means I won't have to replace all the other buffer tubes on mine and my friend's. However, on the slim (yeah, right) chance I ever build another, I'll use another PWS buffer tube because I like its features, rigidity, and the fact that a special spanner is not needed.
I also used the rifle to try out the new Magpul MS3 tactical sling. There are some great $100 slings out there, while this is a great $45 sling, especially when used with the right hardware. It can switch between one-point and two-point use in seconds, and has a strong, reliable clamping system.
The big loop at the bottom of the picture is sewn in place, and is the handle for shortening or lengthening the sling. A closer view shows a few more details.
The swivel has a narrow-jaw clamp on the end that locks to a swivel or loop. In this case, the front has a Magpul fixed semicircular loop, while the back has a GG&G triangular loop, rather than a traditional oval that would be used to run the sling strap through. To convert to single-point carry, just unclamp the front clamp, and connect it to the big D-shaped loop next to the bottom of the pistol grip.
With this type of sling, the traditional oval loops really aren't needed, because you're connecting to a narrow clamp, rather than having a loop of strap material passing through the oval, so something more adaptable to a clamp should work better. Your mileage may vary.
My new project is to get the Ruger 22/45 ready to reliably function with subsonic ammo, while I'm waiting for the suppressor that might some day arrive. The first thing I've learned is that getting a .22 pistol to work reliably with subsonic ammo is hardly a trivial task. In fact, a lot of can-owners just say, "bag it", and shoot high-velocity .22s just to make sure things work right. This is far less of a problem with a suppressed rifle like the Ruger 10/22, although even it needs tweaking for subsonics. For the purist, nothing is a big deal if you stick to a bolt action .22.
In doing my research, I already picked up one handy, money-saving tip. Even if you don't have a suppressor, the subsonic .22 ammunition out there may shoot even better than the more expensive .22 match ammo on the market. It turns out that in rifles, the match ammo starts out supersonic, but then drops below sonic speeds. The bullet is buffeted by the shock wave as it slows down and the shock wave goes ahead of it. With subsonic ammo, there never was a sonic shock wave to begin with, so it may shoot better at a cheaper price. Another accuracy enhancer on a .22 target rifle is an efficient suppressor or flash hider. Both divert or delay a lot of the turbulent hot gases behind the bullet that can adversely affect its flight.
The first step in my research is to test all of the subsonic ammo I can get my hands on. Here's my test subjects so far, with four or five more bricks of other brands still on back order. What doesn't work well in a handgun will still find good use in a rifle.
I also learned that "old school" .22 plinkers make the best suppressed pistols. The Ruger is definitely "old school", even in its present incarnation. A number of people said the Beretta 87 Cheetah makes the best, and sexiest, suppressed .22. If you're going "old school", this is the absolute classic.
Just two problems with that: The model 87 is almost impossible to find (probably because it will soon be phased out as too expensive to make in today's world), and the longer target barrel is absolutely impossible to find.
Well, I bought that Beretta Cheetah last year on a whim. Maybe it was more than a whim, because I've never seen another new one in any of the stores I've been in since then. Aaaaand, I stumbled on one of those "impossible" long barrels. At the price they were asking, I could see why they're going the way of the dinosaur.
Still, with one half of the project already on hand, and money the only obstacle for the other main component, I figured a barrel in the hand was better than none in some future bush. I still have to send the barrel in to a company that does a nice job of cutting it down, and threading it for the now-standard 1/2x28 thread. Here's the Cheetah out for its first try with the "target" barrel.
I got 100% failure-to-feed from the Remington subsonic ammo in the long barrel, but 100% success in the original barrel. Back home, I noticed the feed ramps differ on the two barrels, and I'll have to make some careful adjustments to the long barrel. I'm sure there was once a caveat that went with the target barrel that said "minor gunsmith fitting may be needed".
I also learned something else. With just the short barrel in the Beretta, I had about 50% failure-to-feed with the RWS subsonic, but none with the Remington. This has convinced me that the Remington has a bit more "poke" than the RWS. So for now, my baseline test ammo will be the Remington. Until the pistol works reliably with Remington subsonic, I won't even try the other brands on it. That's one variable that has been pinned down for the duration of this project.
The other test procedure will be to slam lots of standard ammo through these handguns, just to assist in the break-in procedure. These 36-38 grain subsonic rounds exist on the ragged edge of the reliability envelope. I think the ammunition manufacturers thought they were doing us a favor by using lighter bullets with just enough propellant to get them out the barrel. While that certainly makes for less hot gases to be handled by a suppressor, handguns start getting cranky about it, as do autoloading rifles. The entire suppressed world does not, any longer, revolve around bolt action rifles, as nice as they are. So every handgun on my list of "possibles" will undergo some form of tune-up, break-in, and lighten-up regime. The first will be the Ruger 22/45, which has a bunch of exotic, and pricey, parts on the way. Ruger may consider putting a threaded barrel on the pistol all that is needed to make it "suppressor ready", but I'm betting an added 75% of the cost of another Ruger that I need a lot more effort, and money, to do the job to my satisfaction.
And for the icing on the cake this week, while I was waiting for a spot on the range, I looked down in the case, and saw the new Ruger SR22b, announced last week, just sitting there. I had read a couple of positive reviews, so I asked to look at it.
I was weighing in my mind whether to buy one some day when I remember that I had a $406 Beretta barrel in my shooting case, and it cost more than the entire new Ruger. So I told myself I wasn't kidding anybody, and laid out my freshly-recharged plastic right on the spot. Here it is, starting out its career with subsonic ammo, which is all I had on me.
The first results aren't pretty, but they are informative. The RWS ammo had 50% failure-to-feed, while the Remington was 100% reliable. More confirmation that the Remington just has more energy to work with.
The SR22b feels good, and shoots well (at least once I get better with it), but it doesn't have that "old school" charm and craftsmanship that Walther, Beretta, and some of the others had, both in "plinker" and "serious" pistol categories. Still, there are new benefits, like customizable gripping surfaces to fit it better to a particular hand.
Now all I have to do is wait for the Ruger store to start offering the threaded barrel mentioned in the manual, and I'll have a fourth candidate for my "suppressor basic training" camp. Plenty of little details to chase down, along with ammo qualification, to keep me busy this winter. If and when I actually get that suppressor, all I'll have to do is screw it on, and enjoy myself. All of the piddly detail work (although I don't consider reliability to be "piddly") will have already been done.
When all of that seems to be getting old, I'll either start out researching a can for my .45 handguns, or have my head examined, which ever is cheaper. :)
I have no experience with anything other than a parallel-to-the-ground front end on any rifle, tactical or otherwise, and (campaign medals notwithstanding) none at all in a kinetic situation, and frankly, that thing looks weird.
Will read more later but am asking if your aware of limited revocable trusts for nfa items.
Something to consider......
Afternoon Win Mag - glad to see you’re doing a serious comparison of .22 LR target ammo. My go to ammo is Federal bulk pack since it’s about 16-18 bucks a box. Plenty good for my uses. Actually, my rugers aren’t picky I have shot most everything in them. When I want to get the best (for me) it’s CCI standard velocity. It’s 1070 MV which is what the green box CCI is published to be. Always hard to find around here. Straight std vel CCI is pretty darn good.
Oh cool, you got a SR-22. That’s got the fellas buzzing on rimfirecentral. According to their posts, the customer service at Ruger isn’t sure if the threaded barrel will be available as a stand alone item or in a ‘conversion kit’ what that may be. Also no idea on the when.
I can see definite benefits for myself, but not on every single weapon I own. With my carpal tunnel syndrome, it positions my left hand into a more comfortable position. It also lets me curl my hand onto different angles so as to provide some relief from having my hand forced into a certain position for an extended period of time. I tried vertical handgrips, which provided some relief, for a while, but these angled ones work better for me.
Oddly enough, the Magpul handguard with its odd curved/triangular shape, seems to work well just as-is. If I find problems later on, I'll probably go with an angled grip again.
The barrel is fairly easy to remove, once you ignore the typo in the manual, and use a 9/64 allen wrench instead of the 3/32 listed in the manual.
I hope they start carrying that threaded barrel soon. My guess is a "kit" would include the cap screw, lock washer, and allen wrench, along with the barrel itself. A corrected set of instructions would be nice, although I wasn't slowed too much by the bad info.
Great report, Mister Mag. I’m particularly curious to see what you do to that Ruger 22/45. I’ve got some of that CCI subsonic ammo, and I did run a couple of magazines through the pistol. I had the same feed troubles. Just not enough pop to properly work the action. I did notice that they are quieter, but like everybody else I just gave up and used ordinary 22LR.
I have a curious new observation that I didn’t expect: So far I’d only fired the supressor indoors. Last week I fired a couple of magazines outdoors. Surpisingly... it was ~louder~ than it seemed indoors. Instead of a softish “Phap” it was a sharper “PAPP!”, and about as loud as an earnest handclap. I can only surmise that inside the range the use of sound-deadening materials definitely creates a more anechoic effect, and outdoors there is more sound reflection from surroundings. Didn’t expect that.
Another update: I got the threaded barrel for my full size Kimber 45 on Friday afternoon. Woohoo! Took it immediately to the range and ran a box of shells through it. It worked flawlessly. This one was ordered directly from Kimber, and came with a stainless thread protector and a replacement stainless muzzle bushing. Adds a nice bit of stainless flash on the otherwise all matte-black finish.
The .45 suppressor is of course nowhere near as quiet as the .22, but it is still a significant reduction. I had no problem shooting in the indoor range without hearing protection. No ringy-ears. But it does make a loud dull “whump”. It does lose some of it’s “gunshot” sound, for sure, as it loses the sharp crack. Instead of hitting an emptel barrel with a 2x4, it’s like hitting a barrel half full of water with a 2x4 wrapped in carpet.
So there’s that...
Something to consider......
Interesting that you mention that. That's the way that my local gun shop handles almost all of their NFA apps for suppressors. Mine included. I was a little dazzled by all the legalese (having filled out several forms already by then...) but they talked me into it (like, dude... everybody's doing it, man... you really want to do it this way, man...). So I did. They had all the documents all ready to go with just a few fill-in spaces and that was it. I have been wondering if others have had the same experience.
Yep....it’s especially neat if ya have a A-Hole Chief LEO with an anti-gun agenda in your way from legally buying such.
Tis the way to go.......:o)
Stay safe !!
I had a great time, because I hadn't been 'home' for Christmas for over 35 years. It was fun seeing my sisters, and SirKit's brother, over Christmas, and the reunion was great fun! We ended up having our family Christmas on New Year's Eve with take-out Thai food!
Hey we had a great time on our winter beach vacation for our LOTR gathering in Melbourne Beach!
I'll see what my buddy has to say after he gets back from the SHOT show. He's in the same position I'm in.
Listening to all the flap about the Newster saying kids should get jobs, even if it's as a janitor. My first paying job was in the summer before I started college. I sold guns in the firearms department of a major department store. Every big store, and gas station, had at a least a few guns for sale, along with fishing and camping gear, etc.
On the first day, the manager took me through the camera department, where he discovered that I could read manuals, and figure out how the stuff worked. Then he tried to school me in the gun department. I visibly flinched when he swept me with the muzzle of a .22, and politely pointed out customers would appreciate more courtesy when showing them merchandise. And that if he discounted the guns that had been gathering dust for ten years, he'd have room for the newer stuff that was coming out, and draw more traffic.
We wound up with an unwritten rule that I would not stray from the gun department unless I was the only one on the floor, and the other guys, who probably all had families (or drinking habits) to feed would stay off my turf, or risk making fools of themselves with their own BS. BS may sell TVs and washing machines, but I felt it had no place in selling firearms. My BS detector still goes off far too often in too many of the few remaining gun stores.
Still, I had a great "how I spent my summer vacation" story for my freshman English teacher, Joyce Carole Oates. However, she objected to the subject matter, so I had to write fiction, instead. I think I said I worked on the serving line of a soup kitchen. :)
Morning Win-mag : First non-grass cutting job was stringing tennis rackets at a little sporting goods store, sorta migrated to the gun rack and actually did reloading and minor gunsmithing. That was a good job in that I could take some of my pittance in .22 ammo at cost; Winchester .22 std velocity Super X. Still have one box of it.
Shot Show postings on GunBlast and the various gun forums are pretty cool again.
Two thumbs up for your range report on the silencers. Way cool on the Kimber. We gotta have another shoot-moot.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.