Apple’s Greatest Advantage: The Apple Ecosystem

Google’s power in the mobile computing world seems to grow with every new product announcement and Android device that comes to market. But for all its reach, the search giant is missing one piece of the puzzle that Apple does better than anyone else: product integration.

It starts with one device. Maybe it’s an iPod; maybe it’s a first Mac; but from that first product, you discover Apple’s unique take on technology. Apple treats each device it manufactures with care, sweating the little details like font choices and icon design, and thinking about how it all fits together. Each device Apple creates plays a part in the overall ecosystem, and the links between them are clear.

I recently stepped outside the cozy Apple ecosystem and purchased an Android phone, the HTC Desire. It was on sale at a steep discount, and I thought I would be able to integrate it into my work/life flow. I was wrong, and the phone is being returned.

The phone was powerful, and had some very interesting features, but it was so entirely different from the rest of my Mac setup that nothing felt right. I could go into detail about application crashes, frustrating hardware, the sordid Android Market (I wouldn’t let my kids browse through it), and other annoyances, but suffice to say that it simply didn’t measure up to the expectations I’ve developed from using Apple devices.

Apple is the only computer company that creates all of its own hardware and software; they control the entire package. Personal computers are a mishmash of parts and pieces from different sources. Hardware from one company, software from another. By contrast, many modern smartphone and computer makers get hardware from one place, and an operating system from another. BlackBerry-maker Research in Motion is a notable exception to this rule, but a recent interview with their co-CEO Mike Lazaridis seems to suggest the company’s leadership at least has little sense of what smartphone consumers really want.

HP, which recently purchased Palm, is another exception to the rule. The stage is set for the computing giant to build its own tightly integrated smartphone environment, if they have any interest in doing so. HP now sells the Palm Pre, but unfortunately, the Pre, once seen to be a strong iPhone competitor, seems to be lagging behind. Not a single one of these companies can design and test integration between phones, tablets, computers, and online services as well as Apple can, because none controls each of these aspects the way Apple does.

Does Apple’s degree of control occasionally border on the excessive? Yes. But consumers end up benefitting from that control more often than they are harmed. It’s only because Apple controls the entire product line that you can rent Inception in iTunes on your Mac, and know that it will play on your iPad, your iPhone, and your Apple TV. It works reliably, consistently and predictably.

When you live in the Apple ecosystem, you make a deal with Apple: I’ll pay you, and in exchange, you make sure everything plays nicely together. Google doesn’t seem to be interested in providing that kind of tightly integrated experience, at least not yet. What Apple does best is remember that technology only exists to serve its users, and goes far beyond a list of features and hardware specs. And that’s why Apple will continue to drive the future of computing, regardless of whether Google and others end up winning the numbers game.

Apple got caught, and decided that the damage was too great to not change its business practice. It was pure damage control.

Prove they didn’t use child labor or unfair labor practices. That burden is on you and Apple, and statements from the boardroom don’t quite cut it.

It was well documented that the companies they were using were using child labor for years. Apple knew the companies they were using did use child labor, but were insured that those companies were not using child labor while manufacturing THEIR products. Uh huh.. Sure thing there. Only a fanboi would believe that. Oh yeah, that’s right.

Give me your proof, that all those reports were wrong. Besides the Apple statements.

Apple knew exactly what they were doing. The biggest embarrassment was that they got caught, and had a contractual get out jail free card. You know, the old “wink wink” and if you use child labor “wink wink” we will disavow any knowledge of it. Why use a sub-contractor that is known to use child-labor, and then expect that they won’t use it on your products? Of course, because they didn’t care. All they cared about was getting caught.

How about making products here in the US instead of taking a hefty near 30% profit margin?

You are on the wrong side of this if you are supporting a liberal US hating company, who farms out to China and uses child-labor. But we know you do.

FUD? Boy, you and your monikers love that word don’t you? I’ve never seen it used so many times except by you and the fanbois.

Did Apple release that word in a document, telling you when in an argument, fight all claims with the acronym FUD? Sure is a lot of FUD going around about Apple isn’t there. Maybe where there is smoke there is fire. Is everything Apple screws up FUD? Just amazing.

Yup, but Microsoft is not listed as the 2nd most liberal company in the United States, and once again, Microsoft doesn’t make PC’s. In any event, two wrongs don’t make a right. Comparing your favorite company with another company to justify its actions is a bit over the top.

From your own link which is unsourced for that claim about Apple being the second most liberal company in the US, which I cannot find back up data for or a primary source for:

"But that's only part of the story — note that 100 per cent of Apple-sourced political contributions came from individuals, and 90 per cent of Google's donations came from private citizens who happen to work for that company.

The chart on your link shows that, in four years (which included the last Presidential election), Apple, the corporation, gave ZERO dollars to political causes or politicians, but identifiable, individual Apple employees, including Steve Jobs, donated a whopping total of $368,397, 90% of which did go to Democrats. On the other hand, during the same period, Microsoft gave Democrats $4,891,800—while only giving Republicans $2,824,000 (a $2 million negative difference)—most (63%) of which came from the company! A fact which supports exactly what I told you earlier in this thread.

Money spent with Microsoft supports far more liberal causes and politicians than money spent with Apple by a factor of almost 15 to 1!!! That makes your claim that Apple is the worst place to spend your conservative computer dollars hypocrisy if your sole criterion is political donations! Microsoft, even adjusted for Republican donations, is far worse.

Incidentally, Steve Jobs last political contribution was made in 2004.

Microsoft doesn’t make computers. And when you buy an Apple, you are supporting both Apple AND Microsoft.

http://theoatmeal.com/comics/apple

And you are correct, Apple is employed by mostly gays, hippies and abortionists. Why would I support them?

Plenty of more links there for you to look at lady.

And, once again.... two wrongs don’t make a right. Using one wrong to justify another wrong is... well... wrong.

I’ll say it again, because you are slow on the uptake:

Microsoft makes an operating system and software. Apple makes a computer.

PC’s are tools. Apple is a lifestyle.

A PC can be run with any number of OS’s, you don’t have to choose microsoft. A PC can be scratch built with any number of components, from any manufacturer you want. An Apple cannot (well maybe it can, but why bother?). If you buy an Apple computer, you are supporting both Microsoft AND Apple.

If you build a PC, you are only supporting one, if you choose windows (which most folks do), but you are not supporting the LIFESTYLE of the Apple.

My sole criterion as you state... is not political donations. Its the whole gayness of Apple, and the whole liberal lifestyle that it promotes. Ever seen an Apple commercial?

I have to agree with this guy on his take on it:

http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=macs_cant

I don’t agree with the little Che icon though, just that I’m not “hip enough” or “gay enough’ to own an apple.

The above accusations were implied, not literal.

Are you going to start to correct my spelling now in an effort to win an argument?

No, sir. You are not allowed to weasel out of putting words in your opponents mouths when you claim they attacked and insulted you when they DID NOT SAY OR IMPLY THEM! I did not imply you were a moron nor do I accept your accusation that I made such an implication. I've read what ReignOfError and others have written to you and no one has attacked you or called you names or used scatological terminology on FreeRepublic to characterize your opinions. YOU raised that straw man as an ad hominem against your opponents to belittle us, just as you now raise the idea that I will be attempting to correct your spelling, another attempt to marginalized us. YOU are the only one tossing insults on this thread. . . it's a sign of one who has no facts to argue.

You are not gaining any points by insulting and denigrating people. . . or by repeating myths and falsehoods. Simply because something has been repeated on the Internet or published repeatedly does not necessarily make it true. Take some time to dig out the background and history. Some of us were there and know it first hand, not second hand from reading about it. Look for primary sources, such as legal documents and read them, not the news reports. Not ONCE have any of us insulted you, esoxmagnum. We have only disagreed with you, yet you have insulted and slurred everyone of us. Why? What are you afraid of? Why are you compelled to show us the error of our opinions? More, why do you refuse to consider that perhaps you might be wrong?

You are correct on Jobs:

http://www.newsmeat.com/billionaire_political_donations/Steve_Jobs.php

His handlers must have told him to stop contributing to anyone. His bio admits he is a strong committed leftist.

“More, why do you refuse to consider that perhaps you might be wrong?”

BTW, wrong on what?

I admitted I was wrong, I think I gave you 25 points on how I was wrong... and I think 8 propositions to rectify that situation.

I think calling my son a thief is a bit outlandish, I think saying things to the tune of “Apple has always been open user” is rubbish, and when I dispute I’m told that I am misleading or don’t know the facts.

or that Apple doesn’t control music content. Maybe now they don’t, but it was stated that they DID. Revisionist history is a key of Apple fans. The past never exists with them, unless it is to their benefit.

Heck, I’ve even seen some Apple fanbois posting history about how Apple should control music content... as a past musician and all that. I wonder who that was...

“Some of us were there and know it first hand, not second hand from reading about it.”

Really? Where were you? What is your stake in Apple? Would you mind disclosing this great insight that you have?

So, its the word of someone “who was there”, versus every report out there. I guess I should just toss out everything published on all subjects if I cannot find such an insider like yourself to set me straight. An insider with a product to pimp. Yeah, that’ll happen.

“Microsoft doesn’t make computers. And when you buy an Apple, you are supporting both Apple AND Microsoft.

You’ve said that several times. What ARE you talking about??”

Ok, I’ll slow down again. M I C R O S O F T D O E S N O T M A K E C O M P U T E R S. Apple makes computers. What part of this do you NOT understand?

Go to wikipedia, or something if you cannot understand this. I mean really, how hard it is to understand. Do you think that Microsoft is churning out computers at some secret location and then slapping Dell stickers on them?

There is a difference between an Operating System:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operating_system

and a Computer:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer

for someone who has “been there”, I would think you would know this.

“How does buying a Mac support Microsof texcept in an extremely minor way”

Chances are, unless you are like many Mac users, and just look at screen savers, move music around (speaking of which, I was so thrilled that my wifes Apple could finally drag and drop, what it took Apple 20 years to make this great development?), chat on Facebook with your grandkids, play tetris or whatever, you will need this as well:

http://www.microsoft.com/mac/buy

Well, that is once a Mac user gets over the hurdle of plugging the machine in, they may develop enough self confidence to actually use Office. (btw, that is sarcasm, does yellow make you sad?)

“Why? What are you afraid of? Why are you compelled to show us the error of our opinions? More, why do you refuse to consider that perhaps you might be wrong? “

Project much?

I’m still waiting to hear one thing that you disagree with Apple about. ONE thing that might indicate you are attempting a sane discussion.

Almost every post in your history, is all about how EVERYONE is wrong about Apple, how everything is FUD, FUD, FUD, FUD (Lord, is that written on the top of your monitor with a sticky note?), and how every PC user is just misinformed, if ONLY they would just buy an Apple. Why do you waste so much time trying to convince folks to buy their sorry ass products? What is your catch? What is your angle?

Whats my catch? I don’t like Apple. Period. I don’t like their politics, I don’t like the experiences I’ve had with their machines (oh, but yes, see, now they’ve changed, and the NEW machines are better... fool me once shame on you, fool me a few times, shame on me), I think they are perpetually a few years behind the market, they release crap and then expect you to buy the “working version” a year later. I don’t like who they market to, I don’t like their user base. I don’t like their employees. I don’t like Steve Jobs. I don’t like Al Gore. That’s my hitch. I’m a conservative, and I don’t like their company for those reasons.

I do like the profits they have been bringing in, like I stated, we do own Apple as part of our portfolio, and as part of our company 401 that we administer.

I have to say, that I am torn, because they help our employees bottom line in terms of their retirement, but I don’t like them or their politics.

I also think they are a bubble that will burst, and after arguing with you, I am more inclined to sell our own stocks, perhaps after the 1st of the year when I can make those changes (well, after 1st quarter and Christmas figures roll in). As far as our 401, we are part of a group, and I can only suggest (well my wife can, she is part of that board) that we divest of Apple, but I don’t see that happening. The returns have been too great.

I am also torn because my wife loves both her iPhone and her iMac. I hate them both, but I love my wife. What my wife wants, what makes her happy, well, that’s good enough for me. I cannot force my belief system on her, she doesn’t get involved too much in that sorta stuff. The iMac looks good in our kitchen, her iPhone is perfect for her. End of story.

For me? No way.

So, I’m torn. I’ve capitulated several times, I’ve given you the strengths of Apple, and what I perceive as their weakness. You want to brow beat me about how misinformed I am about those weakness. Sorry buddy, I’ve been down that road before.

Her iMac has been nothing but a PITA for me and our network. Our Shuffle sucked. Her iPhone is useless for us as a business, because it doesn’t have Nav, nor does it take video or good pictures (yes, the new ones do, great, once again, buy ANOTHER Apple product that may work). Why does this matter? Because she has to have a digital camera in the shop, because its her job to take pictures of things sometimes (when shipments come in damaged, or when a customer complains about something), and I have to pay for a GPS in her car, because her fricking “do everyhing” iPhone can’t nav her anywhere like all the rest of our company phones can. Plus, she had to have that damn iPhone so bad (you know I love my wife...) that we now have 2 phone plans going, one with AT&T of which I cannot reach her on her iPhone half the time, and our Verizon phones for the guys in the field. So she has to carry, a camera, a dash GPS, and a verizon speak to talk phone with her everywhere she goes, unless she’s at her desk. Oh how wonderful Apple is.

My wife also loves diamonds. Yes, diamonds. No matter how much I tell her they are useless, how they are not worth their weight in sand, she MUST have diamonds. I explain how deBeers has stores and stores of them, and how man-made diamonds are now more flawless and harder than natural diamonds, how in times of bad economy, diamonds are worthless compared to gold. I try and suggest to her to buy gold jewelry, heavy gold, or coins to keep around. She buys diamond jewelry, and then puts them in a safe deposit box. Why? Buy gold! But, she will have nothing of it. This is how I view Apple users. She is an Apple user. She is my wife. I love my wife, did I mention that? So... sigh... she gets diamonds... and Apples.

She also likes Starbucks. I like Dunkin Donuts. See opposites attract, I guess that’s the deal.

BTW, wrong on what?

On a lot of what you have posted on this thread. ;^)> What else ?

I wouldn't disagree with your conservative principles.

I never called your son a thief. I believe that ReignOfError made the comment that a kid could not build a PC computer equivalent to a $5000 MacPro with it's two six core Xeon processors (which retail for around $1200 a piece) and the high end graphics card, unless he stole them, for your quoted $800. I agree... he couldn't. At the time that was written, Esox, the kid was anonymous and you had not identified him as your son. I doubt Reign would have couched her criticism in quite those terms had she known you were referring to your kid.

Apple lead the effort to get rid of DRM on music. Steve Jobs and iTunes broke the stranglehold the music publishers had on music distribution after they killed Napster. He found a viable way the publishers could live with digital downloads. The price they insisted on was DRM. Jobs wrote an open letter to the music industry about removing DRM and negotiated the first non-DRM music from a major label... this is established history ... Which finally opened the floodgates to all of the music publishers selling music without DRM. Apple is now trying to do the same thing to Hollywood to get the prices of movies down. . . And to remove DRM from them.

As a past musician I do believe that music should be paid for. Copyrights should be supported. I buy my music. I don't pirate. 99 cents is a fair price for a song I like and want to own and listen to and the artists should receive the reward for having done it. I get angry when my work is stolen by people who claim to like what I did but aren't willing to pay me what it's worth.

Really? Where were you? What is your stake in Apple? Would you mind disclosing this great insight that you have?

You know, esox, some of us older guys WORKED in computer tech ... I own a business that supported Windows and Mac computers since the mid 1980s. I still own it but its more of a side line now for a few die hard clients who don't want me to hand them off to younger guys. I work intimately with both systems earning my living from them. I LIVED much of this history.

My nephew (who is only a few years younger than I) was a member of the Home Brew Computer club with Steve Jobs and Steve Wozniak and decided against accepting their offer of one of the first ten jobs at Apple because he didn't think it was going to go anywhere—but did wind up as the manager of the first Apple affiliate store in Berkeley selling Apple IIs—and regrets his lack of foresight to this day. He is still a friend of the Woz ... and sees Jobs occasionally.

Many of the people who were instrumental in these events, I'd call up to ask technical questions and would shoot the breeze with them and we'd talk about what was happening... So, yes. I DO know what happened. I read the primary documents. Not the second hand speculation...and certainly not the spin... And, knowing the background, I can interpret what really is going on.

Oh, and it's not me verses "every report that's out there" because I can link to reports that back up every word I've posted. . . From mainstream technical pundits and reviewers. I can prove what I post.

Ok, I’ll slow down again. M I C R O S O F T D O E S N O T M A K E C O M P U T E R S. Apple makes computers. What part of this do you NOT understand?

I'm still trying to figure out why YOU think that a Mac user HAS to have anything to do with Microsoft at all???

Apple produces it's own operating system for the Mac computers, not Microsoft. Apple invented the graphical UI Drag and Drop, and GUI cut and paste, in the first implementation of MacOS and in fact Microsoft PAYS Apple a a few pennies royalty to be able to use it in Windows and in Microsoft Office and other MS software that utilizes drag and drop as do all other software companies that use drag and drop.

As for "needing" Microsoft Word, Excel, or PowerPoint, Apple makes an excellent package called iWorks'09 that includes Pages, a Word compatible word processor, Numbers, an Excel compatible spreadsheet, and Keynote, a superior presentation package that replaces PowerPoint and will play PP presentations. So, you are again hoist on your petard. It is perfectly possible to run a Microsoft free Mac! I do.

Ignorance is curable, Esox. I'm trying to cure you.

Microsoft is in your lovely Mac.

And Mac is in your Microsoft. Apple and Microsoft have a business relationship. They compete where necessary for individual profit, and cooperate where necessary for mutual profit. That's called being a company, not driven by hatred for a company. Microsoft made a LOT of money selling Word on the Mac.

And maybe I’m slow on the uptake, but Microsoft is not a computer maker.

I'll bet you're running Windows.

The Shuffle was sold as PC compatible. Problem was, you were forced to enroll in all of Apples spy crap, forced to register all of your current content, and were manged into the iTunes store.

One, the Shuffle was not one of the first iPods. Two, you did not have to register your current content. Three, contrary to your claim it did work with your PC. Four, you do not have to buy content from the Apple Store. I have Amazon MP3 content in my iTunes right now.

But, true, iTunes is not the greatest of Apple's apps. It need a complete redesign as it's grown far beyond its original music manager functionality.

Yup, but Microsoft is not listed as the 2nd most liberal company in the United States

They're probably separating out Gates' giving billions to the likes of Planned Parenthood through his foundation. In any case my point stands, most tech companies are lefty. It is unfair to say you won't use one because it's lefty. Did you know HP was one of the leaders in gay "rights" in business?

So, you have skin in the game. It is nice to divulge that you have a past history with Apple before trying to even sound objective. Of that you are not.

My involvement with Apple began later than yours, I’m sure. I got my first degree in 84. My first 2 years in college were spent on an Apple II. The third year, on an apple IIc, hooked to a corvus. By the 4th year, everything we had purchased was garbage, thousands of dollars of engineering software, garbage, because the school then went into Mac. The two systems could not run the same software.

Upon entering graduate school, and having already done all of my required computer language classes (there were only 2, fortran 1 and 2 and Cobol Pascal, well, plus flowcharting), I was told everything you learned in school, throw away, because the world does not operate on Apples. I learned that, they did not. All of the emerging robot technology was on PC. PC and Apple was not compatible at that time. Well, unless you were doing spaghetti code or basic DOS.

I drifted from having to do anything with programming. It wasn’t my interest, nor my field. I was an engineering student. PC use was what was needed. CAD. All relevant engineering programs on building design, and environmental controls were on PC. I didn’t dissect the languages, didn’t need to. To this day, many of the older buildings that we manage are still in this format. To maintain and troubleshoot them, it is done on late 80’s programs believe it or not. Very basic stuff. Newer controls are being implemented all the time, especially, well, in newer buildings. These programs are also PC based. I can monitor them from home, from our shop, and I have to trouble shoot them, from many miles away, via our PCs. The software might run on a Mac, I dunno, I have no reason to want to try it. Up to this point, my experience with anything Apple has been a major disappointment. In addition, our network has several PC’s, and the addition of the iMac has been problematic. All of our field reps use PC laptops. To even consider changing to apple would cost us at least in the 6 digit category. And why? So we can get punked by Apple when they change their OS or some other such nonsense?

I am an end user of programs, not a programmer, but even the guts of the systems we use, from the controls on a ventilation system, to the fire suppression system of a building is PC based, with PC boards, which are controlled by PC programs.

All of my diagnostic stuff is PC, and it must be registered to each individual computer. I always watch for the OS needed to run such software, because I have to have the operating system at hand (yes we also have several field laptops with just windows 98 or ME on them, because they run like crap even in proprietary mode in Windows), I don’t see anything in my field for Apple, and i’m not going to chance the liability of running a program in the background on a non-native system. The implications and risk of explosion from a badly controlled boiler, or the risk of sick-building syndrome from perhaps over humidity are too great to chance with a flaky system, or a system non-native to the design engineers.

It just doesn’t fit, and I’ve explained this early on in this debate. Maybe it could be made to fit, but I have a real job, and there sometimes aren’t enough hours in the day to get done what needs to get done. As an engineer, I was taught the golden rule of good engineering. Don’t fix it if aint broke. Too many engineers over think problems, I see this daily in my line of work.

Another rule of engineering, make sure your product is complete, has been tested, re-tested, evaluated by peers, and evaluated by end-users before releasing it. Apple seems to do none of the above in any cohesive fashion.

For a long time, I worked in the printing field as an engineer, I worked on the design of printing presses, and the integration of pre-press components with actual floor equipment.

At that time, Apple had the hands up in graphic design. I mean, no comparison. My brother stayed in the printing field (a very hurting industry right now), and when I can stand to talk with him (I have 2 very liberal brothers), we do talk shop, etc. They have moved completely away from the Apples over the last couple of years, because the computerized presses and the whole shop have to be ISO 9000 compliant. They had nothing but major problems integrating the pre-press Apples with the pressrooms. In addition, his subcontractors, the pre-press houses, moved from the Apple software, to Adobe for PC, and Photoshop for PC, so most of the files he was getting in were PC anyway (as opposed to the old days).

So, I have your take, you have a stake in Apple. You have my take, I don’t. I have to use what works. For my line of work, Apple might work, but I can’t risk that.

You mentioned earlier that office exists for PC or Mac. yes, it does, but if I take an excel worksheet for a bid or for calculations, that was written on my PC, and I transfer that to my wifes iMac, formulas change on occasion, columns change on occasion etc. As an engineer, that is a big NO NO. Every decimal can have severe consequences. There is no law of engineering more prominent, than the law of unintended consequences. I use that law more than Ohm’s law, as I feel it can cause the most damage. Is that Apples fault? Maybe not, maybe it’s microsofts fault, but it’s a chance I can’t take. We have found it a couple of times, where a formula had to be reinserted. That is not acceptable.

And again, on to my son. He games. He wouldn’t be caught dead with an Apple product. He read some of the previous posts before bed last night, and gave me a good one liner that is common with his friends. It’s an old one, it used to be about mopeds (kids don’t know what mopeds are), but has been changed.

What do fat girls and apples have in common? they are both fun till your friends see you with one.

No offense to fat girls.

The other one he offered was: What’s gayer than Justin Beiber? Justin Beiber on an Apple.

All joking aside, apple is just not for me. That is how this thread started, and you took offense to that. I also offered that Baskin Robins has 31 flavors for a reason. To each his own. That still didn’t satsify you, you wanted to pursue the subject, you wanted to prove that Apple is the greatest thing since sliced meatloaf. I explained why it wasn’t, you wanted to argue.

I checked your posting history, and realized this would not get anywhere, so I made a rhetorical, passive aggressive attempt at humor to shut you up. Instead of seeing the humor, you went off the deep end. Does yellow make you sad?

I still don’t like apple, it doesn’t fit my needs, either technically or socially. When I retire, and play minesweeper and listen to Barry Manilow, I may buy an Apple, but probably not, because it will probably explode in my hands when I pass by my church. I’m sure they will have an app out by then to cause shrapnel damage to Christian institutions.

“He runs the Apple list. Duh.”

If I ran the RINO List, would it be OK for me to pimp McCain or Romney as well? Of course not, you run those lists so you can follow the nefarious actions of said creatures, and to criticize them, and strategize against them. Not FOR them.

Why would someone run an Apple list or even a Microsoft list on FR, unless to criticize their politics?

There are plenty of tech boards out there. FR is not a tech board. It is a political board. A conservative board as well, so I personally find it distasteful to find someone pimping liberal products with such zeal.

I could see an Apple list, whereby we could talk about how Apple or MS should be boycotted for their political stance, but not an Apple thread where you are a HATER or a TROLL if you don’t love them to death.

Heck, the Apple thread, your not even allowed to dissent from them. That is called pimping.

Like I said, its one thing to quietly use a lefty product that you need to out of necessity, it is quite another to pimp it, advertise for it, and then squelch any opposition one may have toward it.

BTW, I would criticize MS or anyone else with just as much zeal if someone were pimping their products on this, my favorite, conservative forum. That is what I come here for, to criticize leftist organizations, not to embrace them and advertise for them. On that note, I guess we’ll have to agree to disagree. We have diametrically opposing views.

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