Apple’s Greatest Advantage: The Apple Ecosystem

“One, the Shuffle was not one of the first iPods.”

On this you are correct, I do not keep up on music devices. To our family, it was one of the first, because it was the first time one of my family members expressed interest in having such a device. But, since it was not one of the first, this makes it even worse. Wouldn’t Apple have gotten their head out of their collective arses by the time this came out? I guess not.

“Two, you did not have to register your current content. “

She sure did. Every time it was plugged into the PC, some apple application (I forget the name) would pop up, and it would start filling in the blanks for all the missing songs. If I remember, on the agreement as well, you agreed to share your information with Apple. My kids were downloading their content from torrents, from Limewire, and copying old CD’s mom and dad had. With all the stories of folks getting fined for illegal music, this was a big no no for us. Apple has and had no right to categorize our music. And we searched, and searched on how to turn this off, we could not. We were told if we bought the better music thing (whatever i thing that might have been) we could use whatever music management device we wanted.

“Three, contrary to your claim it did work with your PC. “

yes, it did work with a PC. but like crappola. Her zen was plug and play, no apple pop ups, no categorizing songs, using windows media player to organize however she wanted.

Further, we had 2 of them things, now that I recall, one my oldest daughter had as well. We could not figure out how to get both of them to work with their one shared computer. It wouldnt’ do it. It would update both song lists, and force the song list to the other one, or it would direct us to the iStore thing to buy the usage rights for one song that had been bought already. I think my oldest daughter just chucked hers after a week or so.

“Four, you do not have to buy content from the Apple Store.”

No, you don’t. But our kids were directed to do so. For an eight year old, getting pressured into buying music, is just wrong. Also, for us to use the thing, we HAD to have a registered apple store account. I do remember that. There was no way to even manage or remove or add songs without the registered account.

“I have Amazon MP3 content in my iTunes right now.”

My kids have tons of songs on their zens, or zooms or whatever they have now. My son says he has over 10,000 songs on his Android. What is your point?

““Four, you do not have to buy content from the Apple Store.””

Let me clarify that, now that my wife is awake, and jogged my memory.

For the shuffle to work, you had to hook up to iTunes. To hook up to iTunes, you had to have an iTunes account. There is (was) no anonymous access. You had to fill in all of your personal information, neither of us remember if a credit card was needed.

As far as the 2 shuffles on one computer, it was because a computer could only be registered to iTunes once. You could not register the product, it was the PC we were logging from, so when one kid would plug in the shuffle, it would go right to the iTunes thing, and update her list from there, which was very different from the other kids list.

Our solution was to register each shuffle on a different PC, which means we had to use up the HD space of 2 computers. It was a pain, and the songs we bought back then, would only work on 1 device. Dispute this all you want, but when we transfered them to the other PC, and the other daughter would go to the iTunes store, it would direct her to buy the usage rights. The iTunes software would not accept the license agreement connected to the song, if the song was transferred via our network. It had to be registered to the particular shuffle.

You can scream and kick all you want, and claim that is not true, but when we got on the net back then, the posts to this fact were found all over.

Maybe the shuffle has changed. I think we bought ours Christmas 2 years ago (not including this Christmas). It was a stroke. I think by Feb, we replaced them with the cheapest music players they had at Walmart, and never had a problem after that.

Wouldn’t Apple have gotten their head out of their collective arses by the time this came out?

I bought a second-generation Shuffle. I was still on the PC at the time. I was already using iTunes, I'd been doing digital music since the mid 90s, and it was the best player so far. I plugged the iPod in, iTunes immediately recognized it (even showed me the right color), and it was brain-dead to either tell it to put a playlist on the Shuffle or for it to fill the Shuffle to capacity with random songs from my collection (which was entirely ripped from CDs, I refused to buy DRM music). I had zero problems.

Every time it was plugged into the PC, some apple application (I forget the name) would pop up, and it would start filling in the blanks for all the missing songs.

That sounds like Genius, which you have to explicitly turn on. When you do turn it on, it sends your playlists and listening habits to a database, but it doesn't identify you specifically. It does that for everybody. Then it can suggest other playlists and new music for you based on what other people with similar tastes to yours have.

BTW, while had low initial expectations for Genius, it rocks. I was amazed at the music it came up with, and I had some pretty esoteric music going. It was as if one of my favorite DJs made a playlist just for me. Amazing.

It also sounds like the "complete my album" feature, but that's just Apple trying to sell you something.

using windows media player to organize however she wanted.

WMP phones home too. And if you're afraid of the big bad RIAA, remember that Apple has been fighting them to remove DRM, while Microsoft pays them for each Zune sold on the assumption that you will pirate music. Who do you think is more likely to cooperate with the RIAA?

We could not figure out how to get both of them to work with their one shared computer. It wouldnt’ do it.

I ran two Shuffles and a Nano off a PC, no problem. Each had its playlist(s) that it looked in to get its music when synching. Remember, this is all prior to me buying a Mac.

But our kids were directed to do so. For an eight year old, getting pressured into buying music, is just wrong.

You do realize the Zune is connected to Microsoft's store in pretty much the same way, right?

Also, for us to use the thing, we HAD to have a registered apple store account.

That's your Apple ID for registering. It does automatically make the store available to you, including free stuff like podcasts, but there is no requirement to give it your credit card or buy a card at a retailer. You never have to buy anything.

What is your point?

That iTunes doesn't tie you to the Store. Your music can come from any source, and it doesn't care. In fact, the Amazon MP3 downloader added my purchased music to iTunes for me.

For the shuffle to work, you had to hook up to iTunes. To hook up to iTunes, you had to have an iTunes account.

Actually, an Apple ID. But if you want anonymous access, feel free to use any of the other programs out there that manage music on your iPod. If you want to register your product and get full support and online features, use iTunes with the Store. No, it is not a duty of a manufacturer to inform you of competing products.

As far as the 2 shuffles on one computer, it was because a computer could only be registered to iTunes once.

And then each iPod you plug into it will be recognized as a different device. iTunes will remember the settings and playlists for each device. You can put the same DRM music on up to IIRC five iPods. Remember, I did this with two Shuffles and a Nano on a PC, and it included one DRM album my wife bought (I was not happy on principle since I had refused to buy DRM music).

Dispute this all you want, but when we transfered them to the other PC, and the other daughter would go to the iTunes store, it would direct her to buy the usage rights.

Now you know why Apple fought with the record labels to remove the DRM requirement, it's a PITA. You wouldn't have had this problem if you'd stayed on one computer.

“WMP phones home too”

Only if your set to allow it to. Easy as pie to turn it off.

we could not, and never were able to do that with the shuffles. Nor could many that Christmas week, as we were all over the internet seeing the same complaint as well.

Maybe they fixed it. Maybe it was a glitch. I have no idea, but it was par for the course for my own previous experience with Apple.

Also, we were constantly barraged with some other apple application afterwards, even after tossing the shuffles to the bin. I can’t think of the name of it, Real Media maybe? Oh and Safari kept wanting to install on our PC on every start up. We could not find either of the programs on add/remove, nor was there a disable option. they were eventually removed I believe with either Spybot Search & Destroy or we manually did it with Norton.

“I ran two Shuffles and a Nano off a PC, no problem. Each had its playlist(s) that it looked in to get its music when synching. Remember, this is all prior to me buying a Mac.”

Wouldn’t work for us, and after paying for the apple tech session (yes, it wasn’t free) we were told to upgrade to maybe the nano, or whatever was the next model up. We were told that because the shuffle has no window, you must use the itunes application (whatever that was) to arrange and do your music, and only 1 shuffle could be registered to each account. We were not alone in this frustration, many many people experienced the same thing. Just because you didn’t, doesnt’ make it so. I am always amazed at the apple people who claim “didn’t happen to me, so it never happened” Right. Plenty of folks out there that it happened to. We were not alone, we were reading apple boards (oh yeah, and since apples never have problems why do they have so many problem solving boards?) constantly to get these Christmas gifts working properly.

So, our solution? Buy some piece of crap cheap thing for 30 bucks, and guess what? it worked better than the named brand Apple junk.

Oh, and it had a screen that the kids could use. Amazing.

“You do realize the Zune is connected to Microsoft’s store in pretty much the same way, right?”

They have Zens. No store pops up. Sorry, I get the zune, zen, zorro, and zulu confused. No account needed. All it does is play the music you put on it. Period. Just plug it in, it acts like a USB storage device, you drag and drop. Period. No store. No accounts. No filling in the blanks. No recommending songs for you. Just simple. If Apple would be this simple, I might give them credit. If windows devices would be this simple, I might give them credit. This is why I like 3rd party stuff.

Maybe it was a glitch.

We have a word for this in tech support, PEBKAC.

Real Media maybe

That's Real Player, no relation to Apple.

Oh and Safari kept wanting to install on our PC on every start up.

Apple Upater. But congratulations on your first legitimate and proven gripe against Apple. Trying to force Safari on everyone who used iTunes as a wide-ranging complaint.

We were told that because the shuffle has no window, you must use the itunes application (whatever that was) to arrange and do your music, and only 1 shuffle could be registered to each account.

I'm having a hard time believing this now that I'm up to two Shuffles, a Nano and a Touch under one account.

Just plug it in, it acts like a USB storage device, you drag and drop. Period. No store.

That's how I do the music on my Android phone. Personally I find it to be a PITA and prefer the automated management of iTunes, especially Genius, which helped me rediscover music I forgot I had.

If Apple would be this simple, I might give them credit.

That's how it was in the old days, before the iPod, which most companies tried to copy. But as I said, if you don't like iTunes, there are alternatives for loading up an iPod.

“Apple Upater. But congratulations on your first legitimate and proven gripe against Apple.”

I gave you several, dating back to 1985, but since they are not problems of yours, they are not legitimate problems.

You go ahead and continue to promote what I and many see to be a junk company, with junk policies, and a junk history. The problem is, you may encounter people like me who don’t agree with you, and pasting a big apple on your thread, on a conservative forum, and telling people who disagree with Apple not being the greatest thing since Ronald Reagan, you are going to get into these debates.

If you were pimping Windows, telling the world how great it was, I would jump in as well, and tell you horrific stories of Vista. If you were screeching to the forums how genius Bill Gates was, I would be right there telling you “whoa there ma’am, not so fast”.

But your not, your promoting Apple. Liberal, junk Apple. And on this forum, you just might find some resistance from folks like me.

Try a tech board if you want to avoid that sort of thing. Instead, I consider you and Swordmaker to be trolling the boards with the Apple posts. You are just looking for a fight and you know it, then you hide behind the “Apple Thread” logo of no flame wars.

Sorry, the gay agenda creeped into our schools because everyone said “oh, its only a little bit, let them have their way”, while the homos screamed for protection to anyone who dared criticize them. Guess what? Now its in our military too. Our nation is in bad bad shape. So, if no one else will stand up and complain about liberal corporations, I will at least attempt to.

Not that it does much good on a dead thread, but rest assured, I’ll be there in the future, to remind folks about the leanings of Apple, and the junk they put out. Same goes for Microsoft or any other liberal company someone decides to push, advertise for and pimp.

Got a problem with that? Report me to Mr. Robinson.

Wouldn’t work for us, and after paying for the apple tech session (yes, it wasn’t free) we were told to upgrade to maybe the nano, or whatever was the next model up.

The ONLY reason you'd be charged for Apple phone tech support is if all of your iPods were out of their one year warranties... otherwise it's free. Even then you could go to an Apple store and get free support for your out of warranty iPods. What Antirepublicrat told you is correct. You are again wrong.

Your repeated problem is you want them to work just like a Microsoft Windows product. . . glitches, difficulties, geek requirements, and all. . . and you refuse to accept a different way of doing things.

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