Skip to comments.Windows 8 tablet sooner than we expect? (Next Microsoft OS will embrace tablets better)
Posted on 02/17/2011 1:00:18 PM PST by SeekAndFind
Microsoft is scrambling to get some traction in the slippery tablet space, even though it invented the genre back in 2002. The next version of Windows, called Windows 8 for now, is supposed to embrace the tablet form better than anything produced to date. That should be a long way out, but information leaked by Dell implies it will release a Windows 8 tablet in Q1 of 2012. Can that timetable be met?
ZDNets Mary Jo Foley isnt betting the farm, but offers an interesting scenario that would allow such aggressive timing on Dells part. Her conjecture, and she makes it clear thats all it is, has Microsoft releasing the system-on-a-chip (SoC) version of Windows 8 first, ahead of the regular versions of Windows for the desktop. Her reasoning is that Microsoft has made it clear it is porting Windows to the ARM platform for quite some time, and pushing it first would allow Dell to meet this aggressive schedule of releasing a Windows 8 tablet early in 2012.
This makes sense for Microsoft, as it would allow them to get back in the tablet game sooner, rather than later. The folks in Redmond need to do this, as the tablet segment is expected to exhibit continued growth for the foreseeable future, and the longer Windows 8 is delayed the further behind it will fall. It is clear that Windows 7 on touch tablets is not going to get Microsoft any tablet market share, so perhaps Windows 8 will be better for producing compelling products. I hope Microsoft does whatever is necessary to speed up the effort to bring a compelling competitor in the tablet space. I also hope they realize to make a good showing in the tablet segment, its not just the form factor, nor the OS, but also a good app ecosystem is required that can take advantage of the touch experience
Android is FREE and the competition cannot beat the iPad in price or performance.
How does MSFT expect to make a profit, selling a Win8 tablet OS - with high performance requirements, when the competition which uses a FREE operating system, cannot beat Apple?
I can’t want for the “Blue Tablet of Death”
If Microsoft built cars, they’d be Yugos.
May they rest in h*ll.
Windows is making people dumber.
For example: One virtual folder representing many folders (old school POSIX). Folks “stuff” is all over the damn PC and then they can’t find half of it when they migrate to a new machine.
“Smart” networking. “I can’t connect.” “Did you check the encryption type? WEP, WPA, TKIP, etc..” “Whip huh?”
Next thing they’ll do is get rid of directories and just have everything stored under c:\
Pardon me but this is akin to saying that the Phoenicians or the Irish deserve credit for the American Economy because they landed some sailors on the East Coast a while back. Microsoft lives for it's corporate installed base and for its XBox360 franchises and solid innovation comes from elsewhere.
Between 2002 and 2010 there was plenty of time and talent up there in the Northwest to bring a superior product to the fore, but Microsoft was the proverbial Elephant tripping all over its little Vista problem. To expect this ponderous pachyderm to suddenly become dextrous is a mirage in the distance. Maybe some day MS will wake up but this long-time shareholder has moved on to Apple and my options are doing very well indeed!
...and I'm a PC.
Gee, will it have another redundant and stupid menu feature, ala “the ribbon” of Windows 7 ?
Will they rearrange all the familar commands into something so incomprehensible that they have to issue a program so people can find them, ala Office 2007 ?
Just bought a new Dell netbook, and am zotting Windows 7 in favor of XP. It’ll cost me my retail copy of XP Pro, but it’ll be worth it.
Just a bit of M$ trivia, but they had a W3.1 version for tablet PC’s in the early 90’s.
“Windows for Pen Computing
Main article: Windows for Pen Computing
Windows for Pen Computing was a series of Microsoft-produced add-ons for Microsoft Windows versions in the mid-1990s with additional tools for tablet PCs. Windows for Pen Computing (also known as Pen Windows and W4PC) was developed as Microsoft’s Pen computing response to the PenPoint OS by GO Corporation. Windows for Pen Computing was rendered obsolete by the Tablet PC support for Windows XP Tablet PC Edition in 2002.”
Somewhere I have a copy of that puppy.
Behold the SONICblue ProGear.
Released in 2000, it had a 10.4" touch screen, and was powered by a low-power Transmeta processor. It ran Linux.
Supposedly, Windows 8 will come in several flavors, with one or more intended for the tablets, and which would be very conservative as far as resource requirements and resource consumption (battery life).
Thus, it wouldn’t be a power hungry version of Windows 8, but would still offer a better and more powerful experience than the tablets of today.
You cannot support Adobe Flash and have reasonable resource consumption - they are mutually exclusive.
There are 2 primary ways to display movies. Hardware acceleration uses specific chips that work with very few codecs - and ALL this chip is able to do - is play that codec. This chip's ONLY function in life, is to play a codec to display a movie. This uses very little power.
The other way is 'Software Emulation' where you use the processing power of the processor to play many different codecs. Now you can 'play' almost every codec known to man - but you must now compute the value of every pixel - and the result is that you chew up power. On a mobile device - this is murder.
So, a iPad gets 10-12 hrs on a charge playing H.264/.mp4 file format movies; or it 'could' run Flash and give you 2-2.5 hours of battery life. That's one of many reasonsy why Apple iPad tablets do not run Flash. And one of many reasons that the Tablets that do run Flash - are not selling well.
How do I know this.
Golly, maybe because I work in the industry? Maybe because I know what Windows does, how it behaves, how it uses resources.
Ask yourself some really basic questions, things like “Why Windows?” What does Windows offer, that Android, iOS and WebOS do not?
There is a reason why HP cancelled and postponed the Win7 tablet for a freakin’ year. There is a reason why HP bought Palm’s WebOS instead of using MSFT. There is a reason why Folio, Motorola, Panasonic and Sony are all going with Android instead of MSFT. It’s not random.
There is a reason why WinCE failed, why Win7 Mobile is failing despite MSFT dumping Billions (with a ‘B’) into promoting it.
What takes more power? Speaking English and ONLY English - or understaning every known languages and translating them into grammarically perfect English?
Hardware acceleration does One/two formats - and that is all that the chip can understand. In the case of the iPad/iPhone the A4 chip can play H.264 or .mp4 encoded movies - and that is it. It will not play .avi, .wav, .mpeg, or anything else.
Why? Because the movie is played directly through the A4 chip. Now, you can install a progam like VLC that will ‘translate’ software into a format that the A4 chip understands - but that requires that the processor get invovled and do some processing. This takes power - so when you play VLC movies - you drop your ability to use the iPad from 10-12 hours down into the 2+ hour range.
Software Emulation always (as a rule) takes more power than Hardware Acceleration. It’s really that simple.
Look, being in the industry does not give you a crystal ball into the future, and much less into what’s going to be coming down the pike 1 or 2 or 3 years down the line. I’m in the industry too, but I don’t go around bragging about my credentials in order to try to give my arguments any more strength. In fact, I’ve very likely been in the industry a lot longer than you have.
Now, if you don’t know what Windows 8 is really going to contain as features, and unless you are privy to that information, then you don’t really have anything of value to make your predictions more valuable than that of anyone else.
Come back to this discussion in 1 or 1/2 years, and then, if you are correct, I can take some of your arrogance and you can tell me and everyone else “I told you so!”.
Meanwhile, all that you have is that typical fanbois preference and blustering that is found in a lot of tech blogs where it’s either Apple that is setting the world on fire, and other times it’s Google, and other times, Microsoft.
Don’t do that, it’s not very flattering for a professional.
Sidestep the issues - You too are a professional? And you don't konw this extremely basic concept? What do you do? Shipping and Invoice?
Ignore the facts - Flash is Software Emulation, any newbie to the industry knows this requires considerable memory thrash. Memory Thrash burns cycles, burning cycles also burns power. It's really that simple
Namecall - I'm arrogant, I'm a fanboi?
Do grow up - there is an excuse for not knowing, that's simply a lack of experience. But you exhibit a lack of maturity. That's not name-calling, that's a demonstatable fact; re-read your post, not very mature, in fact it reads like a fairly literate high school student wrote it. Congrats on passing the spell checker test.
There is an intelligent reason Apple went with the A4 processor. In a mobile device, you do everything you can to conserve power. You turn off parts of the chip you aren't using, you constantly put the device into S1 or S2 states, you use power efficient chips, displays and pack the biggest batteries into your left-over space that meet the size/cost ratio you have to work with.
Like it or not, Adobe Flash, Apple's own .avi format, Windows .mvw, the .mkv, .mov, .mod and others REQUIRE processing be done. That's why none of those formats are supported either. Adobe Flash is a resource hog - and it's also been tied to numerous virus attacks due to it's numerous exploits. It's not something you would want tied to your OS. Remember Apple rushed a patch out, because you could jailbreak your iphone simply by visiting a website and using an Adobe .pdf exploit to break into the OS?
You could opt to make a hardware chip that would decode any one of these, but that chip would be LIMITED to ONLY do a few of those, and only under certain conditions (resolution, frame-rate, MIP size, ect.). Apple chose to use the .mp4 and H.264 format.
There is nothing 'Fanboi' about recognizing a superior approach. If as a 'professional' you do not grasp this concept, perhaps you ought to choose another profession.
If you were a competent professional, you would know about Page Files, Virtual Memory, Memory Paging and Virtual Memory. Windows 95, 98, 2000, XP, Vista, Win7, WinCE and yes - even Win7 Mobile all use this concept to address memory spaces that are not physically present. This causes what a simpleton (who knows the industry) calls "Memory Thrash". Simply stated, for your education - real memory is 'thrashed' with numerous R/W operations to sustain the virutal memory. This is done within relatively small memory 'Page'. Every R/W operation consumes power. A 'Good' mobile OS uses as few of these as possible. There is a reason MSFT has failed with WinCE, and is failing again with Win7 Mobile. Delivering a feature-poor mobile OS, over a year late, followed by delivering the SDK 6 months later - didn't help.
These are all facts, no bragging, no arrogance - these are solid, quantifiable facts. What if MSFT does something else is 'magical thinking'. Do you have any evidence that MSFT has changed the strategy they have used for the past 20 years? Did you know that there were hordes of tablets scheduled to come out with Win7 Home running on an Atom processor? Did you know that every single one of them saw that the product had no legs - and they cancelled the programs entirely? Did you know that the HP Slate was supposed to be released over a year ago? Did you know that HP bought Palm because they realized that MSFT didn't have a clue as to what to put into a mobile OS? Guesss these folks are all arrogant too, huh?
Hey, look, dude, you’re still arguing with a very arrogant attitude, and an “I know more than you because I’m an IT professional” reference point.
No matter how you might want to put it or spin it, what you have, as far as the Window 8 smartphone market is concerned, is mostly, guesswork, and a lot of fanboi type rhetoric.
Like I said, unless you are privy to the Windows 8 specs for the Windows smartphone and the Windows tablets, then, all you have is guesswork, and your IT experience isn’t going to change that.
You can throw out all the latest buzzwords you like regarding current or expected technology, but, in the end, you don’t know any more than anyone else about what Windows 8 will have as features or what it will be designed to support. Did you know that Microsoft has already stated that they’ll support the ARM processors, and thereby the smartphones and tablets which use those chips?
And then, you try to label me by calling me a “libtard” while pretending to be offended by me calling you a fanboi? Look, when somebody acts or reacts like you do when being challenged, and you retort with your supposedly superior knowledge in the IT field, then you’re just demonstrating huge arrogance. Your credibility in regards to what’s coming in the future is not necessarily enhanced by pointing to your supposedly superior talent in the IT field. Like I said, I’m in the field myself, but I don’t go around throwing that fact around in order to try to win an argument. I’m not in the hardware field, but being in the software arena, I have to understand the capabilities of the hardware which I might have to develop for, therefore, I need to prepare for whatever is coming down the pike.
Most of what you posted regarding Windows 8 is the same type of “hoping for failure” that I read so often by the detractors of anything Microsoft. And like I said, it would be wrong to have that kind of attitude if it concerned Apple or Google or IBM or any other IT company.
The argument you made, is about what Flash is about and how CPU intensive the software is, and it’s irrelevant. With the multi-core CPUs coming into existence, it may not matter much to the consumer who is not as “IT literate” as you or me. But, either way, do you know for a fact that what Microsoft has in mind is just “Flash” support, or will there be more options to come?
BTW: “libtard”? Does that sound professional to you? And then you’re going to accuse me of sounding like just a grammatically correct “high school” graduate?
The fact is that, I may be a lot more conservative than you when it comes to politics and government and issues. Are you accustomed to making conclusions about the political leanings of a person based on his/her statements/knowledge regarding IT? That would be a pretty idiotic method for critical analysis.
I think your problem is more about not taking too kindly to someone challenging your position and your uppity stance on the issue of Windows 8.
However, I would still like to know what knowledge you are privileged to know regarding Windows 8 that hasn’t been disclosed to the rest of the world.
Also, having been in the industry for, no doubt, longer than you, I do know about “Page Files, Virtual Memory, Memory Paging and Virtual Memory”, because, coming from the mainframe world, and from the massively parallel computing platforms (such as Tandem computers) I had to know how to be very savvy and conservative about memory use. Nowadays, with RAM and drive memory being so cheap, people don’t have the same worries as the “mainframers” of the past. But, like I already said, that’s irrelevant to the discussion at hand, and you don’t need to try to continue pointing out how your arguments carry more weight because of the “superior” knowledge you have in the industry. You may not be able to recognize it as arrogance, but it is.
Now, again, how does my take on this particular issue make me a “libtard”? You, yourself, sound like the typical libtard, who, when he’s not able to subdue an opponent with his side of the argument, will resort to insults or screaming.
Now, ask me about the project which I’m working on to try to get true “fair and balanced” news and information out to the world. (BTW, “fair and balanced” doesn’t mean conservative only or republican, or liberal; it means allowing all news and information and viewpoints). It’s a client/server application which will need a huge database and a huge amount of hardware, with the potential of many millions of daily users, and the potential to draw a large amount of traffic away from Google and Yahoo and Microsoft and all the major news organizations, while generating it’s own traffic. Now, remember, I said “potential”, and that’s because, my system isn’t out there yet. (Yeah, I know, this last paragraph is kind of tangential, but, I would need all kinds of gadgets to be able to connect to my system, including Windows 8 tablets and smartphones, and those based on iOS and Android, and the major OSes, and for all of that, I don’t care who wins the battle of the OSes or the hardware).
Oh, one last thing:
In order to get a message out, one doesn’t need much more than a high-school education in communications skills. When things are kept simple, you tend to reach more people. There’s no need to over-complicate matters. Logic and common sense don’t require that someone be a communications major. ;)
Any facts to back up your bloat? Anything?
I carefully explained that EVERY cycle burns power. I explained Memory Thrash to the level that even you comprehend it, no; scratch that. You went on to prove that you don't.
All you have done, is attack the messenger - on some presumed 'arrogance' that you are projecting.
I never said I was in the IT field - that's YOU projecting. I'm an engineer - I'm a lead on one of the teams that designs what makes these devices work.
But, what would I know .... obviously you know better ... so, please present some facts. Share what you know, it should take maybe an entire paragraph.
The argument you made, is about what Flash is about and how CPU intensive the software is, and its irrelevant. With the multi-core CPUs coming into existence, it may not matter much to the consumer who is not as IT literate as you or me.
God, I hope you are an intern. If not, take your diploma back to your college and demand your money back. Every cycle burns power - and a quad-core burns MORE energy per clock cycle than single core. Transistors burn energy - it's what they do. The whole point of making an ASIC (look it up) is to reduce power consumption. Apple uses the ARM processor, coupled with PowerVR graphics to build a custom ASIC. Now, why in the world would they do a thing like that? Hint: 10+ hrs batter life on a charge.
I tire of trying to teach an ignoramous who refuses to learn. Educate yourself, learn some facts and when you know SOMETHING, let me know.
I took the time to point out the S-I-N features, because you are using those tactics - and like a Libtard, you respond using those tactics. Present some facts, some rationale - Don't attack me, defend your statements (there's a difference - hint: facts are involved).
Hahaha, that's a good one. A $17,000 coffee table is a tablet?
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.