Question -- constitutional meaning of "natural born."

Vanity | 4/9/11 | Publius

[publius1]

Question- constitution speaks to presidential requirement ob bring a "natural born" citizen: "No person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty-five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States."

Is "natural born" the same as "native born"???

[sourcery]

References:

• Natural Born Citizen
• 4 Supreme Court Cases define "natural born citizen"
• The Bottom Line on Natural Born Citizen

[AmericanVictory]

So you don’t think John Marshall and Story and St. George Tucker, among others, carry any weight?

[train]

Common sense shows that our Nation, the greatest country on the planet, would NOT want someone in charge who at a minimum has a dual-allegiance. In other words, when Barry was a young boy in school, he was conversing in a non-English language about Indonesia and the Muslim faith which his adoptive father practiced. He wasn't learning about the 50 states as a normal kid in would learn. He grew up having an allegiance, a tugging of his heart for Indonesia and Islam. Not that he doesn't care about the United States, it's just that the USA isn't his only allegiance.

Because our Founder didn't want someone to gain control over our great young nation, they insisted that anyone who was President must be natural born. They can never, at any time hold any type of allegiance to another country as it would result in them not putting our nation's best interest at heart. The President orders men and women into military action. If they have a slight leaning to another country, they would be more likely to disregard our Nation's best interest in every arena.

Barry is not eligible for the office for SEVERAL reasons. FRAUD at the very least being Number 1. Dual Citizenship being Number 2. Not being Natural Born.... trumps all other reasons. It's obvious he doesn't love our country. In fact he HATES most Natural Born Americans. And he's jealous of us.

[bushpilot1]

!926 Bouvier's Law Dictionary

[Bean Counter]

I’m not an attorney, but I’m willing to bet you a burger that an extensive written answer to that very question has been required from many a Law Student since the Constitution was written....

[bushpilot1]

The word natural comes from Kind and Gecynde. Kind and natural have the same meaning.

When the Founders used the term natural born citizen they placed this type of citizen into a Kind.

Kind comes from the old Anglo Saxon word gecynde.

It is my contention natural born Citizens are the descendants created after the ratification.

It has to be determined if the 14th Amendment can alter the Kind or natural born citizen.

Here is a list of books in my google library explaining Kind and Natural

http://books.google.com/books?uid=-8156330887158583004&hl=en&q=Kind++natural+gecynde

[train]

If Trump has evidence that Barry committed fraud... Barry needs to voluntarily surrender his position as he is not eligible.

Example: If Barry filed for Selective Service FRAUDULENTLY, he would be ineligible.

Example: If his real name is Barry and he FRAUDULENTLY LIED on his IL Bar Application, Barry is ineligible.

There are several, SEVERAL fronts for which Barry is INELIGIBLE. And if/when Trump produces the evidence..... Barry should just voluntarily step down to SPEND MORE TIME WITH HIS FAMILY.

[ProtectOurFreedom]

Perhaps pre-1932. Since then, I fear Constitutional Law classes have only taught how to subvert the constitution and get away with as much as possible while completely ignoring it.

[mamelukesabre]

No, not very recent. Probably 40 years ago is when the interpretation changed.

[hoosiermama]

Input needed to clarify NBC here.

[bushpilot1]

there is a letter by ben franklin..I posted several months ago in a NBC thread..not sure where it is..

He discusses Kind and Natural citizens are for the United States. Once the letter is read you will have a better understanding the meaning of natural born citizen as intended by the Founders.

I will try to look for it...and post it here..

[train]

Can someone photoshop Barry in the Nixon resignation pic? Valerie needs to count her blessing and cut and run. The charade is over. You know and we know he's on his last legs. And quit while you're ahead. Please don't wait until they start investigating the Chicago rumors....

[jersey117]

Please don't wait until they start investigating the Chicago rumors....

What are the Chicago rumors?

[JoeProBono]

[Poincare]

So is the *parent*, father in this case, the husband (BHO Sr.) of the mother (Stanley Ann) or the sperm donor (FMD)?

[train]

not sure, what have you heard about barry while he lived in chicago? any drug use, any affairs? any applying for the IL Bar exam under the name of Barack H Obama and when asked have you gone by any other names, the answer was NO ??? The reason a Law application asks if a applicant has any other names is so that they can research those names. If a person doesn't provide a known name, they are committing FRAUD.

He answered NO other names on his IL BAR Application which isn't true. It didn't allow the Bar Association to fully investigate his application because he refused to provide accurate information.

[train]

this is the image in question... this needs a barry photoshop

Valerie should allow Barry to voluntary resign soon. The charade is up... The longer they prolong it, the more embarrassing it will be. He will not be able to campaign like before. He's already embarrassed about his past. He needs to resign just like Nixon before he's outed by the Iranians. Everyone knows Barry..... just let it go..... Bow out gracefully, you do not have until 2012.... too much evidence showing Fraud.

[bushpilot1]

here is part of the Ben Franklin letter....

Observations Concerning the Increase of Mankind

an excerpt:

24. Which leads me to add one Remark: That the Number of purely white People in the World is proportionably very small.

All Africa is black or tawny. Asia chiefly tawny. America (exclusive of the new Comers) wholly so.

And in Europe, the Spaniards, Italians, French, Russians and Swedes, are generally of what we call a swarthy Complexion; as are the Germans also, the Saxons only excepted, who with the English, make the principal Body of White People on the Face of the Earth. I could wish their Numbers were increased.

And while we are, as I may call it, Scouring our Planet, by clearing America of Woods, and so making this Side of our Globe reflect a brighter Light to the Eyes of Inhabitants in Mars or Venus, why should we in the Sight of Superior Beings, darken its People? why increase the Sons of Africa, by Planting them in America, where we have so fair an Opportunity, by excluding all Blacks and Tawneys, of increasing the lovely White and Red?

But perhaps I am partial to the Complexion of my Country, for such Kind of Partiality is natural to Mankind.

[Sherman Logan]

These were natives or natural-born citizens, as distinguished from aliens or foreigners. Some authorities go further and include as citizens children born within the jurisdiction without reference to the citizenship of their parents. As to this class there have been doubts, but never as to the first.

Actually, there are three issues to decide if Obama is natural-born.

1. Is birth in America without relation to parentage enough by itself to determine NBC status? If this is the case, natural-born would be just another term for native-born or citizen at birth.

2. Is parentage relevant? Must a natural-born citizen be born to citizen parents?

3. If so, does NBC status require both parents to be American citizens, or only one? And does the gender of the American parent matter? It would have at the time of the Founding, but I suspect nobody would stand today for citizenship being tied to the sex of the American parent.

And then there is the whole issue of how the 14th Amendment changed, if it did, the meaning of the term.

Personally, I'm going with #1 above until the Supremes rule on the case.

[Sherman Logan]

In all states, AFAIK, the legal father of the child is the mother’s husband. Even if it’s not possible for him to be the biological father. Even if DNA evidence proves he isn’t.

The law doesn’t care. Trying to “prove” Obama isn’t the biological offspring of Obama Sr. is legally quite irrelevant.