Posted on 05/02/2011 5:57:08 PM PDT by Hillary'sMoralVoid
Clearly this is the result of a clumsy forgery.
So many choices; so little time; is it real or is it Memorex?
Forgive me. I was over-devilsadvocating. There’s no way in HELL the Rather documents were anything but careless forgeries. And though I agree that “changing balls” MIGHT have accomplished SOME of the irregularities of type that appeared, I further argue that no one, NO ONE—especially in an underfunded ROTC or AFB office where relatively unskilled typists filled staff-slots—would take the time (even if he/she had access to SOTA equipment) to prettify file-copy documents. Even at state-of-the-art businesses, anything that required such prettifying was left to a professional printer/publisher.
For pretty much the same reasons, I believe the current BC is a forgery; but belief needs a whole lot of evidence to become certainty. The only way to get there is to question, to test. I’d rather have those questioners & testers on our side.
Couldn’t agree more. Even if the equipment were available, the style manual wasn’t.
Followup:
My Brit friend's response:
His wife's family lived (and she was born) in Uganda (next door to Kenya) and her grandparents lived and worked in Kenya. And yes, he finds nothing untoward in BO's father being listed as born in Kenya, East Africa even though Kenya was not yet officially a country.
So, I reluctantly scratch that off the list of evidence that the BC is fake. But, no matter; it's still a 3rd rate job of amateur photo shopping. An insult to any half wit computer graphics slouch.
Here we have the opposite situation. So far no one has come up with anything to prove that Obama was not born!
I know that sounds silly, but in the "W" case the Democrats claimed "He was AWOL" and the available records could not show he'd been on duty at those critical times! Simply finding records that showed his presence disproved that whole story.
At the same time the Democrats weren't claiming that "W" had been in South America rather than in the USA.
With Obama we have a strong thread that he was actually born someplace else. The absence of a Long Form Birth Certificate enabled that thought to be pursued. Getting the LFBC kind of sets that idea aside but not completely. You'll find some Freepers in the background trying to show that there's some unexplainable "delay" between his birth and the completion of his "original" LFBC in Hawaii. So far their grasp of the meaning of the apparent delays isn't very good but once folks finally figure out what the details of record handling was back in August 1961 in the records center, the BOH, and the hospital, it may well come back to bite Obama in the tail.
I've thought it interesting that NONE of the Freepers who want to push the "delay" issue have attacked any of my points that suggest that this is a true and faithful "rendition" if not copy of the original LFBC.
They understand how terribly important it is to know exactly how that process worked.
Most of the attacks against my points have come from people who just want to do a "jump out" and shout "commie" at me. I think they understand too, but they don't want the truth out because it is probably going to bring Obama's birth in Hawaii back into question.
So, what do I think? Well, so far I think we are dealing with materials taken from the original LFBC! If you pick out any birth in that same period that's as good as it gets.
At the same time I think people are keeping their mouths shut about the details of the process of filling out and filing those records. Hence, no one has volunteered the true identity of Br'r Lee!
That means, basically, that there's no forgery, but these particular records have been subjected to so much change in storage format over the years there are simply going to be a myriad of inexplainable dots, bumps, smudges and distortions. It's probably OK for people to focus on those things, but they aren't going away ~ still, they were in there from decades back ~ forgery marks on top of all that may be invisible to us.
Doesn't matter. The NORMAL PROCEDURES in effect in 1961 may reveal to us that this really isn't Obama's birth certificate ~ but rather, just a report on a live birth of somebody somewhere.
There could be another birth certificate someplace else that will illuminate us. Maybe there isn't. I doubt if Obama knows.
Given his later employment by a CIA front company and his mother's work with Ford Foundation (which regularly lent itself out to the CIA for economic and social analysis agents), it's possible somebody somewhere knows everything, but even Obama doesn't, nor does his boy Pinata!
Did you know that the CIA at Langley requires that the guys who clean the snow in the parking lot be able to obtain the very highest security clearances available under our security systems? There are analysts working INSIDE CIA Headquarters who do not have clearances as high as the guys who cut the grass.
Everything and anything is possible with that bunch.
Since it's possible that we are working against the best the CIA has we may never know, but it's exciting to think that this format (FR) could provide a vehicle to field strip their operation over decades to ferret out the reality of a little boy's birth!
Good grief! Are you my brother? You sound EXACTLY like him.
Can’t remember the quotation or who said it, but you seem to have taken it in (or at least that’s what I accuse my brother of). When TOO many things are wrong or odd, there’s a good chance nothng’s wrong. It’s a bit like the innocent suspect who simply has no alibi.
The CIA business, for instance, doesn’t prove that the Dunhams or Obama I were on our side (not that you’re claiming they are). Maybe the connection’s relevant, maybe not.
But what continues to gnaw at my belief is a very little point: How did “African” which isn’t a race-choice get typed in? Especially if the pencilled-in “9” was the direction to a typist to write “Negro”? What was the point of the pencilled-in number if the typist could choose any old word to describe race? And why was the “9” left as part of the record (rather than erased) if it weren’t checked immediately after typing for accuracy?
Just sayin’. Sure there are innumerable anamolies, but this one was deliberate. Why?
The typists take their direction from the respondents on site ~ in this case Ann Dunham!
Put yourself in the position of the lady who's just had a baby ~ her butt's numb, the baby is out, she's woozy and somebody wants answers.
So, what to say, what to say, what to say ~ does she say Negro, or black, or African ~ what race are Africans? Are they Negroes or are they just really dark Arabs (even some Freepers are confused about that eh), or maybe they're white folks burned by the son ~ give me a beer! Yeah, that's it, give me a beer and I'm outta here, so yeah he's AFRICAN, whoopie! I think it's a bit beyond reality to imagine that the respondent is going to go through the racial categories prescribed for the US Census at that moment. Besides, there's no penalty applicable to coming up with the WRONG ANSWER.
Did you know back then that NON HISPANIC WHITE was answered correctly with CAUCASION except in the Midwest and South where it was thought that to be another way of tricking out COLORED. Oh, yes. My first driver's license said WHITE. It never said Caucasion. It still says WHITE even though my prescribed legal category is NON HISPANIC WHITE ~ which is what I was at work.
Many of the Freepers claiming various things about racial categories and what is or is not acceptable in different years were apparently never themselves classified nor did they bother reading their own drivers license, or asking how their boss classified them for EEO conformance purposes.
Do you also get the idea they may have failed to complete their census forms last year?
So many questions; so little time.
That means they weren't just popped in a typewriter and whizzed out like spray cheese.
You end up with more than one typewriter, more than one typist, more than one respondent, more than one day, more than one rubber stamp....... and all at different times.
They were clearly never "batch processed" although there may well have been a counterpart data base entry made ~ through a dumb terminal. Then the forms themselves were "filed" in large binders.
Some time later ~ I'm guess within the next 15 years, they were also photographed for a fiche file, and what we see are pictures of the documents as they were recorded for the fiche files.
That means they weren't just popped in a typewriter and whizzed out like spray cheese.
You end up with more than one typewriter, more than one typist, more than one respondent, more than one day, more than one rubber stamp....... and all at different times.
They were clearly never "batch processed" although there may well have been a counterpart data base entry made ~ through a dumb terminal. Then the forms themselves were "filed" in large binders.
Some time later ~ I'm guess within the next 15 years, they were also photographed for a fiche file, and what we see are pictures of the documents as they were recorded for the fiche files.
Can’t say that HEW or any other federal department or agency was correct in its determinations of what qualified as a racial description. But—once those determinations were made, don’t you think that, given the available choices, SADOS as well as doctors, nurses, typists, hospital administrators, archivists, etc., were limited solely to those choices? If she’d said “Martian” or “Saturnian,” even in her debilitated state, do you think even the most sympathetic recorder would have accepted it? Do you believe it would have “stuck”? I just don’t. Certain protocols are follwed to the letter, and I believe race-designation was one such protocol—inane as it was and still is.
If you end up with one more, or several more, typewriters, you also end up with that many more sets of eyes (and presumably brains). The fact that the “African” correction was never made among all those typewriter-reloadings make the error even more egregious.
In the South there were still millions of people exercised over the idea that some person with a black ancestor might get away with registering one of their babies as white.
Throughout the rest of the country there wasn't the issue there was in the South or Hawaii.
Let's say that if there was some degree of enforcement ~ in the absence of a law ~ it was neglitory~ (new word).
The fascist pigs who've been running the country since Kennedy's election have hyped this racial identity stuff to the point of puking. What they haven't done is use the mailed fist of the state to send out jack booted thugs to instruct you in the correct way to identify yourself.
Best place to push back on the idea that there's some correct way to identify race is to start right here. I prefer NASCAR and INDY500 when it comes to races and people who don't agree, come and get me you jackbooted thugs, you POSs ~ we'll stop you at the main gate!
From one who lived in Hawaii in the 1960’s and experienced it, I say you are full of it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kill_Haole_Day
Folks I worked with? Well, hundreds.
I probably missed out on the intense concern most of that mixed crowd had for race ~ so that means you were a missionary from New England or something?
Isn't that amazing.
Isn't that amazing.
Yeah, ‘race’ sounds like achieving on merit, and we know the PC societal engineers dumped achievement based on merit decades ago. In fact, the affirmative action bass turd in the white hut is solid proof of that! Affirmative action run amok
you don’t have a clue about the culture in Hawaii ask Lippy Espinda...
He’s dead Jim!
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