Posted on 11/28/2011 9:18:01 PM PST by Kevmo
http://www.physorg.com/tags/quantum+tunneling/ This periodical carries lots of stuff ~ APS carries their url as a ref on their masthead ~ so even though all the science writers/editors here are just junior grade geeks the big geeks read their stuff (’cause it’s based on the big geeks’ stuff). You can find all about cold fusion from your hot fusion environment by looking for QUANTUM TUNNELING. There’s a mountain of stuff out there. Otherwise the hot fusion guys looking at their grants and such don’t use the term cold fusion (but they know it exists).
You got a vested interest in positions on the issue. Thank you, and whenever you show this vested interest in the future I will not be shy to out you.
You got burned with winner and loser picking... you should know better, and it was lady luck that got your gummit contracts where they are. And at least your product is used in defense, one of the few valid constitutional duties of the fedguv. Where would a Rossi box or even a successful Tokamak find a use under any valid constitutional duty of the gummit? Just because the constitution has been flouted virtually from time immemorial is no reason for any thinking conservative not to insist as loudly and forcefully as possible that it be strictly observed again.
... from Wikipedia
We see the vested interest, and it looks like the science part was a feelgood aspect. The US Constitution already provides a method of prospering that, we know it today as intellectual property, or patents and copyrights. That's the only thing that comes even close to a constitutional basis for Jefferson's fig leaf.
Seriously? You pretend you're an expert in any subject that comes up. Give me a break...
I'd have to ask what articles and where you got them. Your perception of what was done is completely at odds with EVERY OTHER TEST/DEMO that was ever done using the ECat. And the measurement of "input power" is so fundamental to developing ANY figure for COP that is simply unthinkable that the measurement was not made. In fact, I'd be surprised if the genset used didn't have its own current/voltage readouts. A quick check of "Google Images" of gensets shows that most of them "do" have such meters.
WHAT "vested interest"?? I certainly ain't gettin' paid by Rossi (or anybody else). My ONLY "vested interest" is in the scientific facts of the issue. And based on the data available, I simply disagree with you and the seagulls. The best available evidence shows that Rossi's gizmo is real and works. There is NO such evidence of the contrary position...none...zero....zip. The "other side" is basing their entire position on Rossi's "social record" of financial malfeasance, and extrapolating ANY evidence to the contrary back to that fundamental ASSUMPTION.
Horse manure. "We" won, based on superior technology as proven by MANY different scientific tests....including tests using "live agents". And in spite of the "crony capitalism" that was happening.
I suggest you read more in actual biographies of Jefferson. He was quite plain that the main purpose of Lewis&Clark was to gather scientific information. The "finding land to occupy" part was the fig leaf that he used to get funding through the Congress.
***Then where is our hot fusion cars & jet packs?
2. Cold fusion has not been convincingly demonstrated, not by bona fide scientists, and certainly not by Rossi.
***Uh huh. So when his customer laid down €2M and put in an order for 12 more, it was not convincingly demonstrated.
3. If Rossi had a genuine process, it would be a simple matter to allow independent investigators demonstrate it without Rossi being anywhere near the demonstration.
***Sure it would be simple, if he had international patent protection. But he doesn’t, so it isn’t.
1. You won't have hot fusion jet packs and cars for many of the same reasons you don't have fission powered jet packs and cars. There are issues of safety and containment. In the case of hot fusion, physicists and engineers are still working on containment systems so that these extremely hot reactions can safely be conducted on earth.
2. I believe this has already been discussed by myself and other posters. The only proof of a customer is Rossi's word--and we already know how reliable that is. (In other words, unless you're a true believer, it's not at all reliable.)
3. Again, this has already been addressed many times. Publishing in a peer-reviewed paper would protect the intellectual property. People can sign non-disclosure agreements. Without even going into why this has not been published in peer-review journals or no patent has been granted, I can say that this "lack of patent protection" is merely an excuse for not allowing independent testing. What it looks like is that he won't allow independent tests because it doesn't work. In REAL scientific demonstrations, companies often leave their instruments with the prospective customer and let the customer use it for a week or so to see if they really want to buy it. And the customer doesn't even have to see inside it; all they have to do is load up samples and remove them when the process completes. There is no real reason Rossi couldn't allow this kind of "test drive"--if the device works.
You made my own point against yourself — his mindset was unconstitutional and Jefferson got the funding by making it look like a minor matter, a matter of understanding the “details” about the land to be occupied.
We haven’t yet seen any “science amendment” to the constitution. Now when one comes, then you have a conservative, constitutional leg to stand on.
Look, hot fusion goes on INSIDE THE SUN. What you actually see for the most part is the corona. According to Widom and Larsen the process that takes place there is actually the same as what you call Cold Fusion (but it's not quite cold. In fact, it's intensely hot. Still, the way it progresses follows the same pathways they propose for LENR processes that've successfully shown the production of excess heat).
This is why you have to read the Widom-Larson paper. Also, there's a physicist at Purdue University who is looking at the exact same process from a slightly different view point and he's found he can tackle it with reference to Bose-Einstein condensate theory.
BTW, that's what the guys DOING THE WORK say is going on.
Now I'm ot a physicist and don't pretend to be one, but if you want to claim you see HOT FUSION on the Sun you gots' to show us the paper that puts forth the theory behind that process. And that's because I just named three fellows who say what you see on the Sun is NOT Hot Fusion.
I do not know why you would quibble over the fact that the sun (and all stars) are powered by hot fusion. But here is a good layman's explanation of what goes on in the sun. I've never before seen anyone question the reality of hot fusion.
Cold fusion is a different matter. The Pons-Fleischmann experiment could not be replicated; other attempts at cold fusion have been, at best, inconclusive. The field of cold fusion appears to follow the trajectory of a pathological science, in which supporting results are marginal, at best, initial interest is high, but falls off as results just don't happen.
I am seriously tired of dealing with you. Don’t bitch to the guy when you go tell him to go look up articles, and then start bitching about the articles I find when I can’t find one that says what you say is commonly reported.
I did a basic google search on this: “1 mw e-cat test”
I examined the first 20 articles that arose because I use scroogle and they return the first 20 results. None of the articles I saw never discussed how much power (in kw) the gensets were outputting.
Now, I am done with you. Crap, I hate to see how you deal with people that don’t wish something like this could work.
Your response to this guy’s post makes me ask you a final question as you talk about “evidence”.
Clearly there is plenty of historical evidence to distrust Rossi. Given his past and what’s he’s done. Being involved in prior cons. It is known, it is not debatable.
You would be an idiot NOT to consider such evidence when he is once again making a large scientific claim.
I would ask you where is your evidence that Rossi has changed? Point to the evidence. Don’t point to the machine. Don’t point to him paying any penalty, he just got caught. That’s not evidence of change. Point to some concrete evidence he has done that shows he ought to be trusted and a higher degree of skepticism is totally unwarranted. Show me your hard evidence Rossi would never pull another massive scam.
His secret catalyst is in the samples Rossi held out to be tested. Catalysts don't change during a reaction so all they have to do is assay the sample he provided and they'll have the catalyst. A poster who apparently wants to remain anonymous (he doesn't have any posts) wrote me in Freep mail and said the catalyst was really the RF generator Rossi used (he uses it sometimes and sometimes he doesn't. The problem is, it's easy to detect the frequency and modulation of an RF signal so that's easily crack-able.
So, there's no reason for the secrecy except one, fraud.
If the poster I'm talking about wants credit, I will be glad to give it to him.
Now I'm ot a physicist and don't pretend to be one, but if you want to claim you see HOT FUSION on the Sun you gots' to show us the paper that puts forth the theory behind that process. And that's because I just named three fellows who say what you see on the Sun is NOT Hot Fusion.
Because you said so, really?
Please stop using words you have no idea what they mean.
You sound like Oswald Bates:
First of all, we must internalize the flatulation of the matter by transmitting the effervescence to further segregate the crux of my venereal infection...
You know how things get when you skip them.
Is it possible for you to come up with anything, anything original?
Besides the B.S word salad you use to explain something along with the scienc-y sounding words. And like I’ve said more than once, I think it’s time for Mr. Thorazine.
Time for beddy bye Lx. You have a busy day ahead of you cutting tails off puppies.
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