Posted on 12/26/2011 8:59:45 AM PST by PUGACHEV
I've been here ten years and this is my first post. I know many here have experience in the different services, but I have none. My son, who is 24, wants to enlist and make the military a career, but does not know which branch to enlist in. He has a high school diploma, no involvement with drugs, and no criminal record except, unfortunately, a DWI and several traffic related misdemeanors. He is intelligent, fit, athletic, and handsome. His interests are ice hockey, video games, and girls, in that order. He is a quiet person with a low arousal type personality who is very tough and self possesed. He is completely unflapable. He has good manners, no meanness in him, and makes friends easily. He has no particular work-related skills or aptitudes. His grandfather on his mother's side was in the British army from Dunkirk to the end of the war, so maybe there is some military talent lurking in his genes somewhere.
My son is looking to me for advice, and he will follow it. My questions are: (1) What branch would have him with the DWI on his record; (2) What branch would best suit his personality; and, if he had a choice, what speciality might be good for him. My first thought was the Navy, but I really don't know.
My son and my about-to-be son-in-law (Friday as a matter of fact, all the groomsmen will be in their dress uniforms!) are both Army. They recommend it highly.
First, he should figure out what he wants from a military career. Adventure? Training? An easy route to retirement? (I hope not on that one, but some people in uniform are perfectly fine with any job that gets them 20 years and that retirement check, and some other people are just programmed to think that way.)
If he has a general idea for a career field, he should comparison shop the branches and find out what a career as a computer repairman in the marines means compared to a similar job in the navy. There is a lot of overlap, and some important differences. With force drawdowns, it’s good to know if a chosen career field is overstrength, which could mean he wouldn’t be in that field for long, or be limited in opportunities.
Last, if the job and branch he ultimately selects involve a security clearance, he better not sign a thing before getting a security waiver for the DWI in writing. The recruiters don’t have authority to look past a criminal conviction, but they do know the minimum that can get through processing, and can push a recruit to give it a shot, knowing that meeting the background requirement for a clearance is a roll of the dice or worse. I know one guy who planned to be an interrogator, but because of some shady things in his background, instead he started a career as a mechanic. There is nothing wrong with a career as a mechanic, but the job satisfaction is much higher if you actually want to do it.
If, after all that, he doesn’t have a strong desire for anything in particular, don’t go in the navy unrated. Picking no job dosen’t mean you get to embark on an exciting internship rotation. Picking a job that dosen’t sound bad for a few years then changing out later is a much better plan.
I served in the Navy, both blue water and brown water, during the Vietnam War. I served because it was my turn to follow in the footsteps of the many members of the Greatest Generation I knew when growing up. My son became a Marine during the Bush #2 administration and served with Marine Presidential Security Forces; not bad for his first job out of high school. In my wife’s and my family we have eight volunteers for military service in three generations.
I know this post is long, but sadly I can no longer recommend service in any part of the military. Repealing U.S. Code Section 654 of Title 10, also known as “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell” (DADT) relied upon deception, disinformation, and discrimination. Deception came from the Department of Defense (DOD) poll presenting the fraudulent idea that the military supports homosexual behavior. Disinformation came from requiring equivalency for rejecting homosexual behavior with discrimination based on sex and race. Discrimination came from repudiating religious freedom for Christian, Muslim, and Jewish believers.
Politicians supporting repeal of DADT relied for cover on the DOD deceptive proclamation that 70% of service members saw positive or no effect for repealing DADT. The poll was conducted after Congressional Representatives had voted for repeal of DADT. Therefore, only 29% responded by completing half or more of the questions, under the compelling logic that nobody really cared. DOD contacted equal numbers of reserve and active troops and spouses, but only 20% to 30% of those whose family member’s military specialty could place them in harm’s way. Also, nearly one third had never deployed. Supposedly all these responses provided valid information, even though people in base housing, civilian neighborhoods, and CONUS bureaucracies never experience firefights and IED’s.
The entire military exists to serve Marine and Army combat infantrymen and those in Special Operations. DOD accomplishes nothing of lasting significance until infantrymen walk the ground formerly held by an enemy, and well over half of those trigger-pullers opposed repeal. Only they understand the unimaginable totalitarian leadership and obedience demanded by their chaotic and brittle environments.
Military service deals with the issues of race and sex amid consequent extraordinary restrictions of Constitutional freedoms unknown to the civilian world. Disinformation must therefore achieve equivalency for rejection of homosexual behavior with those discriminatory issues. That objective in turn relied for vindication on the 1973 American Psychiatric Association (APA) decision to remove homosexuality as a mental disorder from the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual.
Removal followed two years Newsweek described as ongoing disruptive, chaotic attacks on psychiatrists and physiologists. Yet throughout this campaign, no academic papers arose at conferences refuting any previous research. Eventually sufficient under-votes and abstentions enabled a third of APA’s 17,000 plus membership to approve removal amid political rather than scientific motivation.
Next activists established a committee targeting leading researchers such as Dr. David Reuben, and Masters and Johnson to ensure perpetual sanctity for APA actions. No research papers would again confirm initial therapy success rates of 30% to 60 %, substantiating 7 of 10 homosexuals could eventually walk away from the lifestyle. Persistent activism over 37 years enabled ubiquitous infiltration of academia ensuring pre-ordained theses, approved research designs, suitable human data points, and enchanting statistical enhancements. The result has been social alchemy.
Psychology and psychiatry abandoned scientific rigor for popular acclaim. With homosexual studies freed from objective analysis, DADT repeal advocates relied upon base antidotal, emotional politics to dominate discrimination concerns. Advocates were free to avoid the realities of military operations characterized by sacrificial, primitive and intimate relations. Psychology and psychiatry were unwilling to demand a rigorous discussion of whether any mental disorders could be tolerated within the exceptional human structures needed to defeat enemies.
The Pentagon study never addressed the area of religious freedom, placing this form of discrimination for the first time among those restricted Constitutional guarantees inherent in military service. Previously the religious faith exception provided a critical foundation for surviving the grinding stresses and shattering experiences of warfare.
Basic theology explains why Jewish, Christian, and Muslim believers find their religious freedom evaporating with repeal. Followers of desert religions, who send their pastors into the chaplaincy and believers into military service, consider homosexual behavior unacceptable. It resides among the myriad sins entrapping fallen humanity.
For tens of millions “People of the Book” foundational Old Testament scholarship concludes homosexual relationships separate believers from God. When speaking of the character, identity, and purpose of God, He is spoken of as masculine, and all humans become feminine in relation to Him. Besides creating all things, God created heterosexual marriage as the earthy manifestation of the absolute unity and love He seeks with each person. Classical Semitic theology emphasizes identifying with God in spiritual intimacy, meaning any subsequent reasoning must proceed from that basic understanding.
Therefore after repeal, when believers reject homosexuality in counseling rolls and normal life activities, these people reside outside Constitutional boundaries guaranteeing religious freedom. They see themselves becoming guilty of at least cultural prejudice, if not criminality.
This debate veered into humanist social alchemy as a means to fabricate attachments to our Constitution and to dissemble concerning military operations. The primary issues of Constitutional speech and religious freedoms, and of whether any mental disorders can be tolerated within the exceptional human structures needed to defeat enemies were not addressed.
Again I know the post was long, but it is represents definitive reasoning for me in regard to military service. Replacing the warrior ethic with social engineering to enable participation by homosexuals seems fatal to the military discipline that should continuously pervade every branch and is simply too much for me.
Don’t.
My almost 16-year-old grandson lives with me. I strongly advised him to join the JROTC when he began high school last year ... which he reluctantly did. It has since become his favorite class. He’s learning leadership skills and this year he was promoted to Flight Commander. There’s a photo of him on the bottom of my ‘about me’ page.
If he chooses to go to college, an JROTC scholarship will cover most or all of his tuition costs, plus he’ll receive a monthly cash allowance.
If your son’s school offers a ROTC program, he might want check into it.
Tell your son to stay the hell away from the recruiter until we have a Commander in Chief worthy of the title. Otherwise, he's just cannon fodder for the next political stunt that comes down the pike to help Obama look tough.
I have no military experience (yet), but my dad was a career navy officer. All I can say is that the enlister will say just about anything to get your foot in the door. “You want to do XYZ? Sure, I can guarantee that.” Whatever deal he makes with the enlister, get it in writing, signed by the enlister.
At the risk of repeating what others have said, here’s my advice for your son. I offer it as a retired Air Force officer who spent part of his career in recruiting.
First and foremost, it is now a recruiter’s market. With budget cuts, the exit from Iraq and looming cuts in our military forces, the various branches can be extremely choosy about who they will accept as an enlistee. For example, if you son’s DWI resulted in a minor felony conviction, his chances for enlistment are virtually nil. That’s just one more disqualifier in today’s recruiting environment.
Here are some other disqualifiers. If your son is more than a few pounds overweight, he won’t be allowed to enlist. A few years ago, recruiters would wait on a young man or woman to lose the weight, but not anymore. Additionally, it might not be a bad idea to review your son’s medical records. If he was ever prescribed certain drugs for conditions like ADD/HD, that’s an automatic disqualifier. Ditto for certain types of past injuries or illnesses.
In terms of academics, your son must have a high school diploma. The days of the services taking GED grads are over. Additionally, the military does look ( HS transcripts. If they see a pattern of under-achievement, they are less likely to take that prospect than someone who was an average student.
And, as others have pointed out, your son’s ASVAB acore is critically important. Officially, you need a composite of 30 to enter the Army; 31 for the USMC, 40 for the Navy, 45 for the USAF and 50 for the Coast Guard. For the Navy, Air Force and USCG, I’d add 20 points to those acores—at a minimum. The higher the ASVAB acore, the more competitive the candidate is—it’s literally that simple. I highly recommend advance study/preparation for the test, particularly if your son hasn’t been in school for a while.
I also recommend shopping around, particularly if your son emerges as a strong candidate for enlistment. Find the branch that will offer him the best options and put it in writing. And remember: recruiters can make any job/MOS/AFSC sound exciting. If you live near a military base, ask the recruiter to introduce him to someone in that job, or come back to the boards here at FR. I guarantee you can find someone here who held a military job your son might be offered and can give him unvarnished info on that career field.
Best of luck to you and your son. One final note; if your child qualifies for enlistment, he should be very proud. Only 28 percent of young men and women in his age group currently meet the criteria for military service. That would put him among the nation’s elite.
Ern made a very pertinent point and so I'm repeating it. 24 is not too late at all but it's a bit out of cohort.
A couple of observations from a self-admittedly biased ex-Naval Officer - first thing he has to decide is that he can put up with being in the military, period, and only then which branch. All of them require more personal discipline than most civilian careers and make demands on your personal time, your location, your ability to interact with family, not to mention appearance and diet. If any of these is a show-stopper it's good to know it before he takes the oath.
I am the son of a career Army officer and so I know that end of it as well. My late Dad was, at various points in his career, a buck Private in the horse cavalry, infantry, Signal Corps, and Corps of Engineering. The point is that there is opportunity within each branch to find something you're good at. But it's going to be driven by the need of the service at the time. I did not actually expect to end up driving ships myself but that's where the need was and so that's where I went. It's like that.
Best to you and to him.
If he’s tough and unflappable, maybe he’d like to test himself in the Army Infantry. If he can qualify, he could even go to the Army Rangers. If he’s bored with that, he can go into Special Forces (though you can go into SF from any branch of the Army). If he gets bored with that, he can move up to CAG (aka Delta Force). The sky’s the limit if you want to test your toughness in the Army.
I can tell you right now that he sounds perfect for the Air Force as a Combat Controller which will prepare him for almost anything. This job has it all!
Coast Guard or Air Force
There's a fine line between being hard and being stupid.
If they are getting really selective who they accept based on health and mental issues, I think maybe the DADT issue may be moot. Homos are typically plagued with all kinds of mental and physical health issues. I might venture a guess that the few homos that both desire to be in the military and can pass the screening are not statistically relevant...provided they don’t start a quota for homos in the military.
Just a hunch.
ExNewsExSpook wrote:
Here are some other disqualifiers. If your son is more than a few pounds overweight, he won’t be allowed to enlist. A few years ago, recruiters would wait on a young man or woman to lose the weight, but not anymore.
Not true. My son is enlisted in the USMC, ship date 9/3/12 and at least 2 others had to lose weight before their shipdates.
Additionally, it might not be a bad idea to review your son’s medical records. If he was ever prescribed certain drugs for conditions like ADD/HD, that’s an automatic disqualifier. Ditto for certain types of past injuries or illnesses.
Also not true.
Ummm. try 11 years. 8)
My youngest daughter and SIL really enjoyed the USAF.
I can tell you right now that he sounds perfect for the Air Force as a Combat Controller which will prepare him for almost anything. This job has it all!
In my experience, the Marines are a bit different in terms of allowing recruits to lose weight and get ready for basic training. I would ask how much weight your son has to drop before going to boot camp. In the past, I’ve seen cases where the recruit lost up to 100 pounds before shipping out. More recently, I’ve been told the Marines will wait for a young man or woman to lose 20-30 pounds, but they won’t wait for obese candidates—not in this market. Additionally, many Marine Corps recruiters run informal PT programs for their recruits, to get them in shape for boot camp. The rationale behind this effort is clear, but again, it’s something unique to the Corps.
Additionally, I’ve never heard of anyone being allowed to enlist if they were on Ritalin (or similar drugs) for more than a few months. By the time many prospects reach the recruiting station, tney’ve been on these meds for years, and it’s an automatic disqualifier for most branches of the military. Again, the Marines may have slightly different rules/standards.
One thing is certain: as the military draws down, the services will become increasingly selective in who is allowed to enlist.
Best of luck to your son in the Corps.
Join the service that offers him training in the field that interests him most and offers career opportunities when he gets out. Even if he spends 20 or 30 years in, he will likely need to work when he retires.
Make sure that he takes maximum advantage of all of the college tuition assistance that the military can provide both during and after his service.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.