Posted on 12/17/2012 7:13:32 AM PST by SeekAndFind
A number of recent articles explore the growing trend among college-age people to question whether college is worth the costs -- both the direct costs in terms of tuition and opportunity costs in terms of lost time. In other words, many more college-eligible people are now thinking outside the college box.
Three factors are impelling this widespread re-examination of the necessity of college.
First, the soaring cost of college tuition and the debt it is causing are becoming widely known. For example, the NY Times has prominently reported that average student loan debt rose 5% from 2010 to 2011, now averaging $26,500. Some two thirds of those receiving a bachelor's degree had student loan debt. Student loan debt now exceeds $1 trillion; $117 billion in such debt was added last year alone.
Second, it is also coming to the public's attention that the average earnings for bachelor's-degree workers are dropping rapidly in absolute terms, and dropping in value compared to the cost of tuition at an even faster clip. Just since 2000, tuition rates have risen nearly linearly by 72.0% (i.e., an average 5.6% annual growth rate). But during the same period, the average earnings for baccalaureate grads dropped 14.7% (or an average drop of 1.6% yearly). No doubt this is a major reason why the delinquency rate for student loans now exceeds that for mortgage loans, credit card loans, and indeed all other forms of consumer loans.
This drop in earnings is fairly linear, which means that the 2008-2009 recession isn't the primary reason for it. It is more likely a result of oversaturation of the workplace by recent grads. In turn, this oversupply is almost surely due to the moral hazard created by the nationalized government loan program
(Excerpt) Read more at americanthinker.com ...
Universities and colleges have become little more than glorified unions demanding an ever larger suck at the government teat for an ever decreasing amount of product or work value.
In many fields, a Bachelor’s Degree has become meaningless; Master’s Degrees are now required.
If I spent 4 years in college and owed $75,000 dollars in college debts, and couldn’t find a job and looked at a fellow Classmate who graduated High School and is making money as a Plumber, Electrician, Firefighter, Policeman, or Vacuum cleaner salesman , I might have cause to think.
To complicate matters, I was a "professor's kid" -- so the pressure was immense.
After a year of college, I decided I was not ready. I had a salable skill, so I went to work for Rockwell. After a year, I started to go to night school, using Rockwell's Tuition Reimbursement program, to get my undergrad coursework done at a junior college. Gainfully employed, and working toward a degree at a slightly slower pace.
Instead of having to draw on the college fund, I was able to pay my way out of pocket. Which is exactly the way my father got his degree (with a little help from a partial scholarship).
Never took out a loan. Never had to.
Is this a comparison of each year's new graduates? Or is the author claiming that the average of everyone holding a bachelor's degree has had a pay cut? (just followed the link, it is the average pay for 25-34 year old full time workers with only bachelor's degrees after removing inflation)
Also, does it compare degree to degree or just lump everyone together? The problem is considerably different if everyone's pay is dropping vs. each degree's pay staying the same but more degrees in lower paying specialties. (again I followed the link and it is across the board average with no evaluation of each degree).
Our son's current job listed Master's as a requirement, and it was an entry level job, but with a Fortune 100 company.
I think he had a sense this was coming because he took his Master's right after his Bachelor's.
And I think that's why now you can take your Master's using nighttime classes at many of the Universities. They know businesses are requiring them, so you can work a job during the day and take your classes at night.
Of course, you have no life for 2 years, due to working full time, and going to schoole 3 nights a week. But it's only 2 years :)
My daughter is finishing her freshman year of engineering while a high school junior (she has 20 hours so far with another 15 planned for next semester). I had to pay for 17 of the first 20 hours, but now she falls under PSEO in which the school district pays for the classes (all 15 of her hours next semester when one dual enrollment class is counted). I will pay for another 8 hours of math classes this summer, but the school will then pay for up to 23 hours next year (possibly more the laws are a little vague). At the very least they will pick up the expensive online sophomore engineering university classes while I pay for the community college humanities/social studies classes. She may take an additional two engineering classes online over the summer which I will pay for before arriving at the university in the fall of 2014. She will then have only three semesters left for her B.S. in Mechanical Engineering. I don’t mind paying for her classes because she is a very hard worker. She is trying for an internship this summer.
Here’s the problem with the trades. If you are going to work a trade, then go on to start your own company, I can agree with that.
But many of the trades are really hard on your body. My husband started as a tradesman making really good money, but by the age of 30, he was having joint problems, so he went back to college and completely changed vocations...and it has served him well.
People my age (mid to late 50’s) who worked a trade are having career ending physical problems, and if you don’t have your own company established where others can do the work for you, and you manage them, you’re pretty much sunk, and where do you go to get a job.
Examples: a painter had to give up his profession due to shoulder issues; an HVAC worker who couldn’t deal with installs anymore due to health issues; a merchant marine whose knees are so bad he’s going to have to give up the professions he’s had since getting out of the Navy (he can’t pass the physicals)...and those are just a few. All three of these guys made good money while working, but there doesn’t seem to be a way for them to continue to work in their chosen trade (and where do you go from there at 58 years old...Home Depot advising customers?)
So I totally agree with the fact that you can make the same or more money in a trade as in a college degree job...but for how long before your body starts to give out. Plus in those jobs you have to make more if you’re self employed because of the difference in SS tax rates, and the cost of private insurance.
Gainfully employed, and working toward a degree at a slightly slower pace.”
This is, by far, the most adult and the sanest route to go. Nice job.
Wrong, it's due to free trade with low wage countries. We've outsourced so many jobs and so many industries that now shadowstats.com shows us with 23% unemployed. 1 out of 4 doesn't have a job, of course wages are dropping.
Hey, at least the 3/4 of us that still have jobs can buy stuff cheap.....for a while longer.
RE: shadowstats.com shows us with 23% unemployed. 1 out of 4 doesn’t have a job,
How does one get from 7.7% OFFICIAL unemployment to 1 in 4 jobless?
Even the U6 figures ( which includes those who have stopped looking and those who are only doing part time jobs ) are at 14.7%.
From the shadowstats.com site...
"The seasonally-adjusted SGS Alternate Unemployment Rate reflects current unemployment reporting methodology adjusted for SGS-estimated long-term discouraged workers, who were defined out of official existence in 1994. That estimate is added to the BLS estimate of U-6 unemployment, which includes short-term discouraged workers."
You have a point. A good one. The trade I would leave alone is installing rugs. Those kickers have to be murder on the knees.
There is no pat answer for everyone. but telling kids thay have to go to college and get in debt up to their ass is not the solution either.
If your daughter is that far ahead as a high schooler you need to really encourage her to go straight through her masters. A masters degree in engineering will pay for itself with a lifetime of higher earning. I’m finishing my masters in computer science now, but I am twice her age.
Good suggestion. She does have her eye on an employer that pays for getting a Masters degree (will accomodate getting a PhD as well for certain employees). She will make that decision at the time leaving all options open (including getting dual enroll B.S./M.S. credit).
I suspect she will end up someplace like Stanford for the PhD and go on to someplace like Oregon State to teach. That is what she has indicated is her plan right now. She is really driven to succeed. She seems to love engineering (I am an engineer as well). I thought she would go electrical, but she is leaning strongly towards mechanical (I am a mechanical as well). She is getting pretty good at Autodesk Inventor and I going to load Pro/E on her computer to see how that goes.
I found out the hard way that just because one has a college degree even in a lucrative field, which I do, doesn’t necessarily mean anything. If you “hang in there” and work hard to complete the degree it’s realy irrelevent if you find that you don’t have the capability to do the work on a professional level anyway inspite of your best efforts. Te cherry on top of the icing is the fact that we’ve outsourced many jobs along with insourcing third world labor for jobs that couldn’t be outsourced, there’s little to fall back on. Driving a truck seems to be about the last blue collar job left in this country that still pays decent wages, and I fear Mexican trucks rolling into the country is going to sink even that one down the drain.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.