Posted on 06/14/2013 7:50:40 AM PDT by DoodleDawg
I walked into the family room the other day and my boyfriend was watching Saving Private Ryan for like the umpteenth time. It't the scene where they've left the beach and they're walking through the countryside just before the rain started. Then I noticed; all the soldiers are holding their rifles at about a 45 degree angle to their body, muzzle high and the butt lowered. But when you see modern day army troops walking patrol on the news it seems reversed; the muzzle of the M-16 is pointing down and the butt at or above the shoulder. When did the approved method of carrying the rifle change? And why?
I think the position is called “combat ready” because it’s easier to bring it to bear on a target.
I think it has more to do with the type of slings they use now. The M1 sling was basically a carry over the shoulder device and the M16 sling allows to keep the rifle at the ready-low position.
Interesting question!
I can’t say “when”, but as to “why”, let me offer:
Rifle weight, barrel length, safety, and speed to target.
Not Army here but perhaps because back then the rifles were longer and heavier and it easier and faster to let the barrel drop and aim than to try and lift and shoot.
Today's arms, like the M-16-type, are lighter and shorter and therefore easier to bring to aim and shoot.
Don't know. Just a thought.
A lot of this “difference” has to do with the weight distribution of the rifle. The modern M16 and variants have their balance point forward of the pistol grip. Thus, carrying muzzle down. With many of the WWII an earlier rifles, the balance point is closer to the grip due to the weight of the butt stock.
I have a vague sense of WWII pics and documentaries that you’d typically see M1 Garands carried muzzle up, but often see those with carbines carrying them muzzle down.
One was a movie, the other one real.
I’m no weapons expert but I’ll add my opinion to the mix. Maybe it was to help keep the barrel clean of dirt, etc.
First, that’s a great question.
Second, just asking it indicates that you are possibly the awesomest girlfriend ever and he should immediately stop the movie and make passionate lo - oh sorry.
Third, I was Army in another country but can confirm for my part that it was “always” correct to keep a muzzle down unless the rifle is over the shoulder and the barrel at 90 degrees. The reason I say this is that in archival WWI and WWII footage they seem to carry their weapons as we do.
We should all be kept informed by the veterans of the andy army.
Water in the bore. The bore is large enough that if you get water in, it will run out if you place the muzzle down. Some soldiers would place a condom over the bore to keep any rain or trash out. No jokes please.
In Viet Nam. the bore is so small water would not run out if the bore was filled (like in crossing a river and you fall) and then place muzzle down.
The standard procedure was to place the muzzle down, then barely open the chamber to allow air in so the water could run out.
By carrying muzzle down you lessen the chances of rain in the bore. ALSO, Garands and M-16s did not have chrome plated bores and they rusted real fast.
The question is moot in my case, since I’m not andy.
It’s the pistol grip. Much easier to carry an AR-15 muzzle low. M1’s only had a stock grip and it would be akward to carry it muzzle down. I also believe it’s POLITICALLY CORRECT, in that it appears you are not ready to shoot the hell out of anybody if it’s pointed down. Just my 2 cents from an old vet.
Just my $.02 but I’d guess that tradition had more to do with it than anything else. See, with muzzle loaders they carried them with the barrel pointing up so that the ball didn’t drop out of a loaded rifle. After breech loaders came along they just kept carrying them that way because it was a tradition.
The Old Guard at the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier carries their weapons the old way.
And somewhere along the line someone with some sense realized that tradition is fine for the parade ground but utterly pointless on the battle ground, thus the update to weapons carrying tactics.
Again, just my $.02
Spot on Sgt Hulka!
Not dumb. I don’t know the history, but I believe they used low ready even in the movie when they were in combat. They could also use high ready, depending on the proximity of friendlies.
For carry while on patrol, I would have to see some old TMs or FMs to know. I believe the idea today is that we have rotary aircraft all over and high ready or American carry just aren’t as safe as low ready or sling carry.
If you want the answer, it might be found in a TM or FM found here: http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/USA/ref/FM/
The M16 sling was the same as the M1 sling. Only fairly recently, particularly with the M4, has it changed to a low-ready carry (easily). When I was in Basic Training, back in 1998, we used M16s, but had to carry them at the low-ready anyway. That light rifle got to be a rather heavy brick after 12 or so miles of humping.
The new sling setup for the M4 is MUCH better.
Oh, and the scene where being referenced here is lame. No Infantry squad would walk through enemy territory in a wedge formation and carry on a conversation. Hollywood nonsense, but it had to service the plot.
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