Posted on 09/03/2013 10:42:57 AM PDT by TurboZamboni
old western arms (Ithica) sidebyside shotgun question:
couldn't find any serial number or make/model.
20 gauge shells fit in it. any recommendations on lower power shells to start with ? if it works well and is reliable, will be looking to keep it bedside.
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You’re probably right but its a reason to buy another gun.
Works for me, but avoid the new 870 Express guns, their QA isn’t what it once was and they are unhappy with some types of ammo.
Humble advice - Spend $200 to buy a Maverick 12 gauge pump. It is new, well designed, inexpensive, and ammo is available literally anywhere. Or spend a bit more and get a Mossberg or Remington 870. Keep the Ithaca as a conversation piece.
Low brass field loads would probably be alright.
Interesting - I have an old (I think) Win 97 pump that was my grandfathers and he probably bought it before the depression. A friend thinks I should take it out dove hunting sometime, but now I’m thinking not so much.
I don’t remember specifics, but the barrel is a dull gray, not the dark blued steel you see nowadays.
Any thoughts?
The 97 is a very strong gun, I recently sold my 1922 vintage one to a cowboy action shooter, and it was still very tight.
The bluing of many pre-WWII guns was “rust bluing” which tends to be lighter and less glossy than caustic bluing.
A barrel bulge is nearly always caused by a obstruction or partial obstruction. Although steel shot fired through a tight choke has bulged many older guns near the muzzle.
A gunsmith should be able to tell you if your 97 is safe, my bet is that it is.
What’s the story on “Damascus twist”? We have an old double-barreled 10-gauge that’s a wall hanger, but that’s how it has been described. I don’t know how old it is. It came from my 85-year-old dad, who got it from a friend of his dad’s, so it’s pretty well up there.
There were a number of ways that barrels were made prior to modern or “fluid steel” barrels capable of handling smokeless and higher pressure loads. They tend to get grouped under the name Damascus barrels. The common denominator is that strips of steel were wrapped around a mandrel and welded into a single item. Some were very well made, but others were shoddily done.
Here is a link that gives all the history.
A well cared for damascus barrel is still usable, but I would use special low pressure loads. The shotgun in discussion should have no problem with 2 3/4 inch standard 20 gauge shells, if it is indeed a 20 guage. The guage should show on the the barrel. The bore should be .615 inches without any choke, for a .20 guage, .66 inches for a 16 guage, and .73 for a 12 guage. From the comments, it almost certainly is a 20 guage.
I have shot many older shotguns and would not worry about shooting this one after I looked at it.
Too bad about the barrels being chopped off. It makes it a little handier about the house, but reduces its usefulness as a hunting gun.
There is generaly no differnce in pressure levels between high brass and low brass shotgun shells. They all meet industry standards. Yes, there is variation in pressure by various loads, but the high or low brass is not an indicator of pressure levels.
We came up with the same link! Good job.
“A 40 year old 870 is only getting broken in. The only thing not to do is shoot steel shot through it.”
My Wingmaster was made in 1955 and still works great.
Thanks! There’s a nice load for 20 that is pretty low pressure. AA hull, Remington RXP20 wad, Winchester 209 primer, and 15 grains of Unique. About 8,700 psi. Used this for a tubed skeet gun to avoid stressing the tubeset.
Damascus twist uses ribbons of steel or iron that are wrapped around a form and welded to make the barrel. You can see if that is the case simply by looking for wraps on the inside of the barrel. The problem with it two fold. First, Damascus twist barrels cannot operate safely with high-pressure ammunition. (It is possible to hand load lower pressure ammo.) Second, welding technology has changed drastically in the last century. Very old shotguns were not exactly welded as we know welding today; the operation was closer to forging. Nothing wrong with that on the surface, but over time weaknesses can form in the barrel that can be unsafe with any ammunition, even low-pressure.
A number of years ago there was an article in The Double Gun Journal where a guy rounded up a bunch of cheap twist barrel “wall hangers” and fired them remotely with SAAMI proof loads (which I believe is 18,000 psi). None of them blew up in spectacular Elmer Fudd fashion, but there were things like stocks cracking, forends falling off, and guns opening.
Not that I would have fired any, but it was interesting.
That is quite common with the older blued guns to lighten up, it seems to happen a lot if it is stored in higher humidity locals (from what I’ve been told).
They are great guns, I have two in great shape now. One of them is one of the very highest serial number they produced on the final year of production, 1957.
They are great guns, in fact it’s what I keep next to my bed now. The sound of that action is so distinct I figure anyone stupid enough to hear it and still keep coming deserves to get shot.
CC
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