Posted on 01/27/2014 9:05:31 PM PST by Kevmo
That demo was the most secretive of all. Open access to the setup would have resolved all remaining questions, one way or another. There is no need to believe if one can measure.
Wait, did I trick you into going to Wiki? No, I told you upfront the info was from Wiki and to take that into account. I didn't realize the rot went that high, Wiki is in the tank for big oil and is downgrading LENR, is that your story and you're going to stick with it? OMG, Science, Nature, and Scientific American are in it too. How high up does this go, Obama, it's Obama right or aliens.
I'll raise your Jed Rothwell with a Mary Yugo. Rothwell runs lenr-canr.org and is a cold fusion researcher. That doesn't make everything he says wrong but you have to admit, he's basically blowing his own horn and has a vested interest in LENR. Whether that is a bad thing or a good thing we don't know yet so I put Rothwell in the same place I would put Krivit. I hope I don't have to downgrade him to Sterling Allen status.
So yes, I'll trust Rothwell, whom I have observed over many years over an unknown Italian politician.
I'm touched by your generosity. Do you trust another Italian as well, that Italian being Rossi?
I would like to see where Rossi sold his petroldragon 'tech' in the US and became a millionaire. You do have a source for that statement, yes and please tell me it doesn't begin with, "Rossi says..."
Rossi says he is chief scientest for e-cat at the firm.
From wikipedia:
Petroldragon[edit]
In 1974, Rossi registered a patent for an incineration system. In 1978, he wrote The Incineration of Waste and River Purification, published in Milan by Tecniche Nuove. He then founded Petroldragon, a company for developing oil from waste, which collapsed in the 1990s amidst allegations of dumping toxic waste,[11] and accusations of tax fraud. Its assets were seized, together with Rossi’s personal assets, and Rossi was arrested pending trial. Rossi spent four years in prison working on his legal defense in 56 trials, 5 of which ended in convictions related to tax fraud. Rossi wrote that he was acquitted in the other 51 trials.[12] The government of Lombardy spent over forty million euros to dispose of the 70,000 tonnes of toxic waste that Petroldragon had improperly dumped.[13] According to the mayor of Lacchiarella, Luigi Acerbi, “In the years when [Rossi] was working here, he didn’t produce a single drop of oil, as far as we know.”[12]
At the conclusion of the trials in 1996, Rossi moved to the US.[14]
Electricity from waste heat[edit]
In the US Rossi started the consulting firm Leonardo Technologies, Inc. (LTI). He secured a defense contract to evaluate the potential of generating electricity from waste heat by using thermoelectric generators. Such devices are normally only used for refrigeration (Peltier effect), because the efficiency for generating electrical power is only a few percent. Rossi suggested that his devices could attain 20% efficiency. Larger modules would be manufactured in Italy.
Rossi sent 27 thermoelectric devices for evaluation to the Engineer Research and Development Center; 19 of these did not produce any electricity at all. The remaining units produced less than 1 watt each, instead of the expected 800–1000 watt.[15]
“Most likely this company is part of the scam. It only costs a couple of hundred dollars to form a company and put out a press release.”
Company ‘formed’ in 2012 ...
1) According to Rossi, he designed and built thermoelectric generators that put out 800 watts but were destroyed in a fire. Of the several he did submit, only one worked and it produce 1 watt.
2) According to Rossi, he had an ecat running in one of his factories for two years. Where is this factory?
3) According to Rossi he was going to have robot plants making millions of ecats.
About that factory:
Before going public with his ECAT fusion invention, Andrea Rossi had also manufactured a boiler, using this method, that has heated his factory Ferrara, a small town in Northeast Italy. Since this boiler has heated the factory for about a year, they were able to make experiments in an actual working reactor. The reactor in Ferrara reactor is similar to the modern ECAT that they are making and has a module of about 20 kilowatts. It provides heat to an area that measures about 1000 square feet. Ferrara is a very cold area in Italy where winter can go on for the duration of five months in a year. With temperatures ranging from 6 to 10 degree Celsius. The reactor was able to provide heat to the office and factory for over a year. This result encouraged Andrea Rossi to make the other modules that later would be tested by other scientists. They are now in the process of building a one megawatt plant.
Now, wouldn't it be far more believable to show the working ecat in his factory then the ridiculous demos he did?
4) According to Rossi, he has factories all over the place, he implied he was going to make ecats in Florida but had to go on record as stating that he wasn't making anything and certainly anything nuclear.
Clearly, anything that begins with, "Rossi says..." needs to be evaluated on his very flexible version of the truth.
“Cherokee undoubtedly checked out both the technology AND Rossi. “
Then the are aware that Rossi has a record of scams and fraud and went to prison for fraud?
“You talk to me about Goering, and you quote WIKIPEDIA, whose prejudice against LENR approaches that of Science, Nature, and Scientific American.”
Jed Rothwell is a contributing editor on cold fusion for wikipedia.
Your caps lock has convinced me, 2014 will be the year of Rossi although it may be different than you think. I think prison.
“You are assuming that his work is fraudulent but THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NO EVIDENCE OF THAT. NONE. “
His past two ‘major projects’ were frauds. So was he. He spent four years in jail for fraud.
OMG, it never ends, the conspiracy for LENR rivals that of JFK. Jed Rothwell makes the perfect front for a disinfo agent. And if you think I actually have gone insane and believe that, well you believe Rossi. And by you, I don't mean TexasGator.
You have to understand the thinking that goes on in handwaiving that inconvenient fact away. It was the mafia that wanted control of Rossi's petroldragon or the Illuminati changed the laws that made Rossi a criminal. They could find Rossi over a dead body of his mortal enemy with a bloody knife in his hand and they would waive it away as he was giving CPR.
this scam always appears just before a major political event such as an election or the SOTU.
This is just trolling like the creationist threads.
If that is your opinion of Rothwell, then you're an ignorant idiot.
"I'm touched by your generosity. Do you trust another Italian as well, that Italian being Rossi?"
As I've said repeatedly on these threads......NO! But his technology has been tested multiple times by highly competent scientists. That data is there, and to write it off because Rossi at one time was in trouble with Italian authorities is simply to display pathogical skepticism.
"I would like to see where Rossi sold his petroldragon 'tech' in the US and became a millionaire. You do have a source for that statement, yes and please tell me it doesn't begin with, "Rossi says..."
I've already told you once that Jed Rothwell looked into Rossi's US background and what he found. Do I have a link? No. I visit a LOT of websites and don't keep track of all of them. So it is "Rothwell says........", not "Rossi says".
It's not about "trusting Rossi". It is about evidence provided by knowledgeable scientists from multiple tests. At some point you have to start looking at the data instead of spouting off negative social factors.
You insist on writing off ALL test data because Rossi was at one time in violation of Italian law, which is ridiculous.
What makes you think they don't??
Yeah. You might want check what HE says about his experiences as a "contributing editor" when he has tried to get corrections made.
Nope. I've read the government issued report on his thermal converter experiment. I see no evidence of fraud.
"He spent four years in jail for fraud."
Financial fraud, not technical.
I'll wear that compliment with pride.
As I've said repeatedly on these threads......NO! But his technology has been tested multiple times by highly competent scientists. That data is there, and to write it off because Rossi at one time was in trouble with Italian authorities is simply to display pathogical skepticism.
Look, I realize you are the self appointed arbiter of what is real and valid and as always, backed up with an appeal to authority but you, simply put, are wrong.
Not one demo that Rossi did was out of his control and manipulation. The demo with the hot-cat is equally suspicious, I'm not an expert on nuclear reactions but I damn well am an expert at electronics and yes that too is an appeal to authority.
Why did he use two phases of a three phase system to heat his hot-cat? There's no reason to, to calculate A/C power you need to break out some trig and you have to understand the entire system including the impedance of the power supply. Use D/C and simple algebra will suffice and it will be accurate. So why did he use A/C and on top of that, it was modulated by triacs, do you know how much noise triacs create? That also increases complexity and makes actual power usage harder to calculate and what instruments did they use to determine power, clamp on meters (hint, the triacs screw up the readings), this is real science to you? No, that's all wrong. Rossi says (there's that phrase again) that the resisters(heaters) are needed to kick off the reaction and modulate it with the implied possibility of a run away reaction if the resisters aren't on. I'll leave the fact that it has been said he needs the resisters ON to stop a runaway reaction to a later time. What would have been easier and accurate would be to use D/C, run it through a transistor, a small current from the emitter to the base would modulate the transistor from off to full conduction to control the resister. Then you use an inline ammeter or one across a 1ohm resister to determine current. Use a DMM to measure voltage, voltage times current equals wattage, it doesn't get any simpler.
So, why did he use two phases of a three phase power system, it isn't easier to setup, it sure isn't easier to determine the power in so what are we left with, I say deception. And how did they determine how much heat the hot-cat was putting out, an infrared thermometer. Weren't you the one who said he needed to do proper calorimetry but suddenly an infrared thermometer is good enough? Don't you have to assume some things when you do a black body calculation such as emissivity and didn't they use the number that gave them the best results? In the past, Rossi used some suspiciously placed thermocouples so we know he knows they exist, why wasn't there one on the hot cat?
Never mind the fact that it was running when the team got there, there being Rossi's 'lab' including Rossi's buddy Levy. Yeah, as you huffed, it was all kosher according to you.
Time or ability? I realize you must go through some serious cognitive dissonance to say that Rossi is on the up and up and it is affecting your postings. Now you're taking everything personal when you started out you were basically talking about the science. It must be a struggle to be a Rossi apologist knowing what you know. The first time you sell your soul it is hard but in time, it gets easier and easier and your posts get angrier and angrier not to mention snippier.
For a small stipend I'll relieve you of your guilt in perpetrating this fraud.
Even if Rossi's e-cat is real, the contortions you go through to say that these demos mean anything must leave you bent like a pretzel.
You insist on writing off ALL test data because Rossi was at one time in violation of Italian law, which is ridiculous.
I will assume you have heard of and understand the United States court system. If a witness is found lying on the stand, that one lying statement will be used to impeach the witness's entire testimony.
Forget Rossi’s shipping containers! Blacklight is going to power 10,000 homes from a one cubic foot device....soon...
and my perpetual motion machine will be in every garage...soon..
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.