Bonidy v. United States: The Second Amendment at the post office

The Volokh Conspiracy ^ | October 2, 2014 | David Kopel

[right-wing agnostic]

Yesterday the Tenth Circuit heard oral arguments in Bonidy v. United States, which is an as-applied challenge to the U.S. Postal Service regulation which completely prohibits firearms on all postal property, including parking lots. Mr. Bonidy lives in Avon, Colorado, and has a concealed carry permit issued pursuant to Colorado law, following a fingerprint-based background check, safety training, and the County Sheriff’s determination that he does not pose any threat to himself or others.

The post office does not provide home delivery in Avon, so residents must go to the post office to pick up their mail from a box. The local post office is open 24 hours a day, has counter staff 6 hours a day, and provides no security for patrons.

In the District Court, Judge Richard Matsch upheld the postal ban for the post office lobby (where patrons access their mail boxes), ruling it to be among Heller’s “sensitive places.” He ruled the gun ban unconstitutional as applied to Mr. Bonidy and the parking lot at the Avon Post Office. The case thus came to the 10th Circuit on cross-appeals by the parties. Mr. Bonidy is represented by the Mountain States Legal Foundation. Some of the documents in the case (but not the appellate briefs) are available on the website of Michel and Associates, a southern California firm with a specialty in firearms cases. Like me, Michel and Associates has no role in the case.

[Paine in the Neck]

Remember, guns are banned in the Post Office not because of actions taken by people at the customer counter but because of Postal Service employees going nuts.

[thorvaldr]

It think saying that guns are banned at the post office due to the actions of their employees give the tyrants too much credit. Guns are banned at all federal buildings, including national park visitor centers. Your masters ban guns anywhere they can conceive of an excuse to ban guns, because they believe that a disarmed populous is easier to control.

[rpierce]

This is a much deeper and more important issue than it might seem at first glance (as becomes clear as you read the article).

Here's a great point from commenter BigFED at the source:

I work at a gun shop and it is LEGAL for us to MAIL a handgun to another licensed dealer/repair facility so that means we HAVE to carry that gun into the postal facility and we do conduct business face to face with a postal employee. There is NO difference if we do so while carrying concealed in accordance with state/local law.

The "No Guns" policy according to the Post Office also applies to police/LEO.

What is really an issue is that the term "Going Postal" is derived from actual post office employees, not an civilian entering the post office!!! Nucking Futs!!!

[Rockpile]

I’ll bet that a large percentage of the violence at POs involved love triangles.

[Paine in the Neck]

Your masters ban guns anywhere they can conceive of an excuse to ban guns, because they believe that a disarmed populous is easier to control.

This is certainly so.

It think saying that guns are banned at the post office due to the actions of their employees give the tyrants too much credit. Guns are banned at all federal buildings, including national park visitor centers.

Maybe someone can recall the history of this. Were they banned widely before the several notorious cases of USPS employees 'going postal'? Or was it also in response to that panic?

[thorvaldr]

Totalitarian, citizen disarmament extremist always say “here is a problem, here is what I want to do”. They expect you to think that since they said those two things in the same sentence that they are related to each other, but they don’t ever actually claim that. If you push them, they won’t try to support the ridiculous notion that putting a sign up at the post office, a school a mall, or wherever could possibly prevent a crime there. It would be stupid for them to say that, and they don’t ever say that. They just say “something needs to be done” and they are very clear that “something” doesn’t need to have any logical chance of solving the problem.

[Rockpile]

An interesting read but they don’t address some specifics at POs——and other big businesses——such as controlled access parking lots versus front customer parking; the public area of the business versus the “back”: postal lobbies where the box section is separated from the customer windows.

What about driving through the parking lot to drop mail in the outside boxes?

What if someone brings in a gun to send it registered mail such as back for warranty work at the factory?

[PoloSec]

Since reading this I've been trying to think of a place where carrying a weapon should be illegal for law abiding citizens, there may be places it is not practical but, I need some help with this.

[thorvaldr]

“Since reading this I’ve been trying to think of a place where carrying a weapon should be illegal for law abiding citizens”
My sheriff says nobody including cops ever carries in the jail, I agree with that.
Court buildings should not have guns in them except law enforcement, due to risk of someone assisting an escape.
The secret service may disagree, but I don’t think you should bring guns in the white house.
You may notice the common thread in all these places is that they have metal detectors and armed guards to ensure that EVERYONE is disarmed, not just the law abiding types.

[Billthedrill]

That *regulation* always has been blatantly unconstitutional. That is federal property and the 2nd Amendment is at its most precise application there. I don't see anything about "sensitive places" in it.

This is silly - no one holds up the Post Office, and the only firearms-related problems there historically have been employees, not customers, bringing firearms in to harm other employees, which is, I believe, already quite illegal.

[ansel12]

People that get their mail delivered at home might not realize that some Americans don’t get home delivery, and are only issued mail slots at the post office.