Posted on 05/05/2015 6:10:22 PM PDT by EveningStar
.
You will need asbestos undies!
.
Are you in need of a hug?
.
We’re all in need of you reading God’s word so you can quit posting Lucifer’s dispensational Hooey!
.
Hey, if you read the rest of what I posted, I’m not well wedded to the notion of a pre-trib rapture. There are some arguments for it but a bunch against. True there are the biblical promises of believers being “spared from the wrath to come” but I wonder if it’s more from the more horrible stuff that happens in the final 3.5 years...which the Bible states will even be shortened lest there be no life left on Earth.
I always took the notion that the believers being spared from wrath in the days of the Coming of the Son of man was the simile equivalent as Noah being shut up in the ark as the judgment if God “flowed around it” as it were.
Now that could also mean miraculous protections as God’s judgment falls on the Earth. Revelation speaks of two harvests including the sealing of the Saints in their foreheads...one of believers from every tongue and tribe and nation and the other harvest of wrath and judgment on those who follow after Satan and the “son of perdition”. So there is a rapture at some point, just not sure of a pre-trib one.(and I’ve never been convinced of it after careful reading, despite being taught so in the churches of my youth)
A pre-trib rapture would be great....let him come now...this instant!(and Christ could surprise all of us...he always had a way of doing it) Yet I’m not convinced of it...we will be tried as the world will be tried and the Bible does say judgment starts first in the house of God.
Amen!
The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.John 3:8
Don’t forget the shekinah glory that sat between the two angels on the ark of the covenant. I don’t deny the spirit is a part of us. The question was...what was the restrainer before the coming of the Holy Spirit? The Holy Spirit is certainly its own entity separate from us as well as a part of us! God is a spirit and in him we live and move and have our being!
Do you see what I’m asking. Something was holding back Satan’s plans even before the coming of Christ then the Spirit after he went back to Heaven. As I’ve stated, the restrainer could very well be the Holy spirit then Christians as he became more resident in our hearts. But remember, the Holy Spirit couldn’t come until Christ went back to heaven. The Restrainer must still have been in operation from the time after Noah’s flood, perhaps from Babel when God had to go down to confuse our speech to keep us fools from quickly developing the means to destroy ourselves by provoking God to wrath! It might have been the Holy Spirit, though not in the embedded corporate Church form you are advocating Alamo Girl. I think that, because of the initial effect of the Holy Spirit upon the disciples when he came....they were noted speaking in different languages praising the great things of God. (kind of a reverse Babel effect). If God could confuse human speech, he can also act to give us a pure speech as the OT says he will again!
So is the Restrainer a special function by some spiritual entity we know nothing about, or is it the mass effect of the Spirit filled believers on the face of the Earth? We speculate but the Bible really gives no clear direct answer.
If the restrainer is something different from the mass effect of spirit filled believers on the earth, than the restrainer could be removed but the Holy Spirit would still be resident with the church to help her in her hour of trial...the mother with child being pursued by the dragon as stated in Revelation comes to mind.
Emotionally and spiritually my hope would be with the notion that the Restrainer is the corporate spirit filled body of believers that get removed when the restrainer gets removed. Reading the Matthew passages and Revelation and Thessalonians passages, I can find no direct explanation what the restrainer is. It must have been in operation from the flood or Satan would have completed his plans long before our “present times and in the times before Christ, when there was no church or spirit filled church body.
Now I do believe in the Church in the sense that I believe its effects are eternal forward and backward in time,(having believers predestinated from the founding of the world) inclusive of all believers in God living and dead(though alive with God)who ever existed, intra-dimensionally influential as the gaits of Hell should not prevail against it. In that case The restrainer would be most certainly the Holy Spirit filled church operating across time and dimension...Restraining Satan from Babel right unto the present day. Remove it and it’s Katie bar the door.
So I’m not anti Church as Restrainer. I’ll cop to cowardice, I certainly don’t want to have to go thru any of the stuff Revelation talks about. Yet, in my integrity I admit to having problems with the doctrine of pre trib and Church as restrainer as the Bible doesn’t fully explain what the Restrainer is. We certainly know what it does!
So don’t hate me Alamo Girl, I respect you a lot! (And MHG too!)
And oil always brings the Holy Spirit to my mind:
Then Samuel took the horn of oil, and anointed him in the midst of his brethren: and the Spirit of the LORD came upon David from that day forward. So Samuel rose up, and went to Ramah. - I Samuel 16:12-13
The wrath doesn’t even begin until the trib is over!
The wrath lasts exactly 10 days.
The Man of Sin appears at the midpoint of Daniel’s 70th week, and lasts 42 months. Those that keep the commandments are protected at a place prepared in the desert. That is the promise to the Philadelphian church, in Revelation 3, but many ‘believers’ will go without that protection because they are too stubborn to keep his commandments. Revelation 3:3 was written to them.
The resurrection is the shortening of the trib.
Paul was clear in his letter to the Thessalonians that a rapture before the trib was impossible. That was his reason for writing the letter.
.
Islamic eschatology teaches that the Mahdi will come to Jerusalem and establish that temple mount as his throne site, and that 'jesus' will proclaim the Mahdi as lord of lords. The eschatology of the Islamic religion is aligned with the eschatology of Christian beliefs, except the Islamic explanation fits the anti-Christ of Christian eschatology, to a tee!
The Revelation of John has the Church as focal point through the first three chapters and at the start of chapter four, when John is 'called up hither', the Church is not mentioned again until late in chapter nineteen. From chapter four until nineteen, John's perspective is from Heaven down to the Earth. The focus of the Revelation shifts from the churches to the world of the Jews, especially Jerusalem and Israel. The Seals and trumpets and bowls of wrath are for the entire Christ rejecting world, but the focus of events, as Jesus taught his disciple on the Mount of Olives on the Wednesday evening before His crucifixion, is Israel and the Second coming upon the Earth fulfilling the seventieth week of Daniel.
Jesus started His History lesson by giving the Disciples an overview of human History, focusing them on the Age of The preaching of the Gospel. But He ended the History lesson focusing on Jerusalem and the Coming of The Son of Man as the Conquering Messiah. The hallmark of the Church Age is the indwelling of God's Holy Spirit as the seal of our inheritance in Christ. For we have passed from condemnation by doing/faithing in what Peter proclaimed in Matthew 16:18. The seventieth week of Daniel is nothing like that Age of Grace.
The opening of Seals by The Lamb of God ushers in the Tribulation, and the first seal has the anti-Christ riding in on a white horse with a bow in his hand but no arrows, because he is proclaiming peace and safety to The Jews. Not to the Church, to the Jews. He makes a seven year contract with The Jews but in 3 1/2 years breaks that contract and tries to exterminate the Jews. The breaking of the contract is the arrival of the second rider, the red one signaling blood and slaughter. The third horseman is disease and pestilence.
The scene at the end of the Tribulation period has Jesus arrive as the conquering King and his vesture is dipped in blood. The bridegroom would not come for His bride with vestutre dipped in blood. and the host of Saints who come with Him wear White linen.
Finally, in John chapter fourteen Jesus tells His disciples that He goes to prepare a place for them, in His Father's House where there are many mansions. And He will come and bring them there to be with Him always.
So, at the start of the Seventieth week, where is Jesus? Why He's gone back to His Father's House with His bride and the rewards judgments are happening for the Church Age Saints. The Saints coming out of the Tribulation period are a different group of Saints. So if there are people getting saved during the revival in the Tribulation, the Holy Spirit is at work with them.
The 144,000 Jews from the tribes will be doing evangelization and the Holt Spirit will be convicting hearts and Salvation will be happening across the world. But the focus for the Coming of The Conquering King is to Jerusalem, to the Mount of Olives. The Rapture and the Second Coming upon the Earth are two very different scenes, hallmarked by very different characteristics. The Rapture is not associated with judgment, but the Second Coming is. The Rapture of the Church is delivering the Bride out of the coming tribulation. The Second Coming is delivering judgment upon the Earth and everything thereon. and there are several more differences, if you're at all interested.
Oops, the post was aimed at you, es. I thought mdmathis6 might want to see it also.
Didn’t read most of this crap, but the end of your screed has a huge error: “144000 Jews.”
Only 12000 Jews, the rest will be from the other tribes.
The other 11 tribes are the bulk of the believers in this world. There will be only a limited number of non-Hebrews saved. Only those that sojourn with them!
.
There are thirteen tribes. All of them are currently referred to as Jews, though technically only one tribe is strictly speaking ‘the Jews’. Do you know which tribe will not have 12,000 selected from it fro the evangelizing?
In the times of Christ, the Bride, while waiting for the groom(which was an uncertain fixed time within a known envelope of time...which may have some application to this conversation by the way) had the responsibility of making sure that her guests and bridesmaids had everything they needed to be ready for the ceremony. So certain bridesmaids found themselves, according to the parable, short of oil.
Of course their companions did not have enough for themselves and the foolish maids; so the foolish bridesmaids felt THEY NEEDED TO LEAVE TO PROCURE THAT OIL. Of course the parable goes on to state that as they were returning,,,(meaning they had gotten their oil!)they discovered that the groom had already come and they were shut out of the wedding ceremony. So what made the bridesmaids foolish? It was not the lack of oil, for the Bride could have made sure they had oil enough for that was part of her gracious responsibility(according to the customs of the day of Jesus) to her guests and attendants. No, in their pride and self sufficiency, they could not admit their lack of preparation to the bride who could have alleviated their problem and instead left the place of waiting to try to make themselves ready. They found their oil, but they were found not in the place where they needed to be when the groom came! So they were shut out!
That’s why songs such as ‘Just as I am’ are so poignant to me! The Bride can prep us for she has spirit enough and wisdom enough for all who are in need. She has the responsibility to ensure that all is in readiness for when the groom Jesus comes! Just be there in watchful readiness! If we lack something, the spirit filled Bride will supply it!
Prvbs 9:1Wisdom has built her house;
she has set up its seven pillars.
2She has prepared her meat and mixed her wine;
she has also set her table.
3She has sent out her servants, and she calls
from the highest point of the city,
4“Let all who are simple come to my house!”
To those who have no sense she says,
5“Come, eat my food
and drink the wine I have mixed.
6Leave your simple ways and you will live;
walk in the way of insight.”
and finally...Revelation 22:17The Spirit and the bride say, “Come!” And let the one who hears say, “Come!” Let the one who is thirsty come; and let the one who wishes take the free gift of the water of life.
“The Man of Sin appears at the midpoint of Daniel’s 70th week” In this you do err, for the man of sin will enter The Temple at mid Trib and be where he should not be, doing what he should not do in the Temple of the Living God. The man of sin will show up much earlier than that and will be the one proclaiming peace and safety to the Jews and get them to enter into the pact Daniel references as the start of the seventieth week”
I never said that; you might be responding to another poster. I know that the appearance of the man of sin...in deed.the first beast, the 2nd beast also know as the false prophet and the Image of the first beast make an appearance that starts the final week. Because the two witnesses shall we say “bedevil” or “be-angel” the beast system for 3.5 years until the beast makes war against them and is able to overcome and slay them...well temporarily any way!
The whole world(at least the “marked folks) see the conflict and rejoice and give gifts to one another, they are so happy(perhaps it occurs a Christmas time?)..Until God raises them up and says “Come up here!”...the whole world(by TV?) sees this and the whole world is afraid. Then the Desolation of Abomination occurs and the guantlet is thrown down!
I never thought of the Rapture as the second coming, just questioned the timing of it. There is mention of a specific time where our specific lives are examined at the Judgment seat of Christ and our works are tried by fire....those that are good and in the glory of Christ will survive the fire, the bad works are burned up and rewards given. We are given bodies like Jesus and at his appearance, all of us who had been given crowns shall cast them at his feet. Then we return with Christ whereupon the mount of olives splits at the touch of his feet(the second coming) and water flows east and west out of Jerusalem(there is a faultline that separates the mountain north and south as well as a known and unfathomable source of water(some of the purest tasting known) below Jerusalem...with such a source of water, it may also be amplifying Earthquakes that run thru that area. So all is in readiness for the return of the King!
Tribe of Dan!
OOOoooh!
You’ve been called a HATER!
Better get ready to defend yourself with lengthy explanations!
That is NOT very lengthy!
.
>> “There are thirteen tribes. All of them are currently referred to as Jews” <<
.
That is total nonsense!
Jews are less than 2% of Israel. Those that refer to the lost sheep of Israel as Jews are ignorant fools that need to spend way more time reading their Bible (if they even own one).
There is one tribe that separated itself out in ancient times, and spawned the nation that tormented Judea in the second temple period. That tribe is Dan. It is the root of several European nations, and the supposed lineage, through Alexander, of the Man of Sin to come, by some, but other scholars expect him to come from Amalek, the lineage of Haman.
The royal families of Europe are all descended from both of these lines.
.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.