CPU Cooler Contact Pad

[Bob434]

lol, now that’s an option! Quite tempted actually- but I would want usb3 ports, and dvd/write/rewrite capabilities at least- plus ability to add in a graphics card-

[Bob434]

there is a fella on youtube who cleans out his computers with an electric leaf blower believe it or not (just make sure you are in a clean environment- ) He works on people’s computers, and they send him computers that are really bad dust-wise- He stands back aways, and lets the air rip- and these huge clouds of dust appear- it’s quite funny to watch

[Bob434]

my worry is that I do lots of photoshop work with [photos processing, and it’s pretty intense on the computer- plus I do still play games (not them ore intensive ones like crisis, morel ike dues ex - old games etc)

I’ll give that utility a try- and run some photoshop- see how it acts-

[VeniVidiVici]

If the cooler came with the pad already attached just use the pad.

Do not use the pad and the paste.

[spel_grammer_an_punct_polise]

Oh, that is a different situation. How much smaller is it?

[NoCmpromiz]

Ok..

I’ve read through all the comments so here’s my 2/100 of a dollarsworth.

If I read correctly, you are saying that the contact point of your new heatsink is smaller than the heat spreader on top of the P4. Some points to keep in mind. The P4 ran HOT. Newer chips are much cooler operating. Just because a heat sink says it will fit the socket does not mean that it was designed for the thermal dissipation necessary for a P4 but would be fine for a Core2 or whatever is newer. One clue of this lower design point is what you are seeing - contact surface. Unfortunately I have found very few heatsink manufacturers who will list the thermal dissipation limit of their product except for the really expensive stuff made for gamers and overclockers. Also unfortunately, with heatsinks there is definitely a point that is ‘just adequate’ and anything below that is not enough, but there is never a point where you have ‘too much’... You might be able to googlebing the specs for your P4 to see what its wattage was - that will give you an idea of how much heat you need to remove.

With that point in mind, my personal preference is for the heat sink contact point to be sized to cover the heat spreader on the cpu. Your comfort level might vary.

A second point for your consideration that might be a mitigating factor is that the cpu itself does not take up all the space under the heat spreader, but is concentrated under the center of the plate. As such, you MIGHT be able to get away with a heatsink that has a smaller contact point. If it were anything but a P4 I would say you could get away with it. If the original heatsink was OEM, and its contact surface matched the contact surface of the P4, I would suggest that Intel did that for a reason. They caught a lot of flack for the heat issues with that design..

And no matter what you do, clean off that stickey padthing off of the bottom of whatever heatsink you finally use, and replace it with some Arctic Silver 5. You’re dealing with a miniature oven stuffed in a cpu socket...

;-)

[Paleo Pete]

I agree with what usconservative said. Remove the pad, if it’s smaller than the CPU the P4 is going to get hot. The heatsink needs to contact as much CPU surface area as possible.

Clean it well, usually rubbing alcohol does a pretty good job. Do not scrape it with any metal implement, use plastic if you have to do any scraping, probably will to remove the pad. If alcohol won’t remove the glue they used, or thermal compound, WD 40 should, then clean it well with rubbing alcohol.

Watch for lint, it needs to be as clean as you can get it, and paper towel lint will create problems, air pockets you’re trying to fill. (more about that later)

Get some thermal compound, Artic Silver is considered the best, but any I’ve ever used works well. (I’ve built over 200 computers and was a computer tech for 15 years.) The stuff I’ve used the last few times I built one was el cheapo Radio Shack stuff, works fine.

I put the thermal compound on a little different, I use a little cellophane to spread it around, a thin coat is all you need. Usually a blob a little bigger than a BB is plenty.

Most P4 motherboards usually have a temperature monitor in the BIOS, if it has that, crank it up and check temps for at least 10 minutes. That said, a P4 will overheat and be destroyed in 10 seconds without any CPU cooler at all, if it has insufficient thermal compound you should have a couple of minutes to check and see it getting hot. Look in your motherboard manual if you don’t know how to access BIOS. If you don’t know it already, be very careful what you change in BIOS, you can make big mistakes in there...

The metal pad is pretty much junk, carefully remove it, you can use a knife blade if you work very carefully. I would recommend something plastic that will lift an edge. Scraping with metal will create gouges that are air pockets, your worst enemy. Hold a knife blade almost flat and it should lift the metal film, it’s similar to aluminum foil.

The purpose of thermal compound is to fill air pockets, including tiny ones you will never see. Air is a very good insulator, and inhibits heat transfer to the heatsink. Thermal compound is designed to both fill those tiny air pockets and transfer heat effectively.

Again, all you need is a thin coat. Too much is worse than not enough. A number of times I’ve spread it on the heatsink or CPU then scraped the excess off with a credit card. Then spread it again to smooth it out.

[Hot Tabasco]

there is a fella on youtube who cleans out his computers with an electric leaf blower

LOL!!!.......I wasn't that extreme but I did take the computer into my kitchen and did a thorough job with my vacuum cleaner hose..........

Start a thread about your refrigerator and I'll tell you about my experience with mine when I decided to clean the front grill along the bottom of it last week...........

Never mind, I'll tell you now.

I took the grill off (first time in 14 years) and OMG!!! I never saw so much dust and cat hair in one place in all of my life! All those coil things were totally covered, in fact, the entire bottom of the fridge was filled with dust and hair.........Took me about a half hour with the vacuum hose to clean it out.

Maybe tomorrow I'll pull it out from the wall case and clean out the back half............

[Bob434]

I would say it’s about 1/3 smaller- it’s round, as well whereas the cpu is square

[Bob434]

[[The P4 ran HOT.... They caught a lot of flack for the heat issues with that design..]]

Yeah, I was afraid of that-

[[And no matter what you do, clean off that stickey padthing off of the bottom of whatever heatsink you finally use, and replace it with some Arctic Silver 5. You’re dealing with a miniature oven stuffed in a cpu socket...]]

I think I’m going to try it- there’s soemthign funky going on with the computer and I thjink it is related to the cooler OR the fan (I set the new fan on top of the old installed CPU cooler and the computer started again- it wouldn’t even start - mouse and keyboard wouldn’t work etc- well long story short- on a whim, I set the new fan ontop of the old installed CPU cooler, and the computer started fine- I would just use the new fan on old CPU cooler, but the design is slightly different unfortunately

[[Also unfortunately, with heatsinks there is definitely a point that is ‘just adequate’ and anything below that is not enough, ]]

Yep, which is why I am concerned about the surface being too small

Oh well, I can try, as I can buy a small form factor rebuilt for not much money if something goes wrong and computer fries

I just hate giving this computer up as it is an alienware gamer which cost a bundle of money at the time- but I guess I gotta face the facts- but would be nice to save it if I can- not real sure why the computer is acting funky htough- I suspect the old cpu fan, memory is all good, puti n new cmos battery, but that wasn’t problem, tried different psu- same problem, tried different vid card, nothing has helped

It’s kind of a long story about hte3 issues that are happening and it’;s weird as if I leave the comuter unplugged for a few days (with the old cpu cooler in it) the computer will start up- give a ‘low cmos baqttery which I have to go into bios to fix time and date) then it starts fine- runs for awhile, then shuts down and won’t even start (fans are all running ,but no post and no keyboard, mouse etc)- unplug it for a few days, it starts again-

Just really weird- Then I tried the new fan ontop of old cpu cooler fan(unplugged old fan, plugged new fan in- just set fan ontop of old fan) and computer started fine again-

I think the durn thing is possessed

[Bob434]

[[I put the thermal compound on a little different, I use a little cellophane to spread it around, a thin coat is all you need.]]

I’ve heard of doing that- I’ve be3en using the plastic spreader that came with the paste I bought- it’s kinda hard to gat it all even with the spreader

I’ll probably try the new cpu cooler- and like you said, watch the temps for a bit, then run a game and see what happens-

You said you were a tech? My last post explains kinda what is going on- it’s really weird stuff- (note, I was getting two beeps for a bit, then it didn’t beep anymore at post- and it was different beep codes at different times- not sure what is going on there- now no beeps at all)

Could a wonky cpu fan be causing the weirdness? There’s defiantly a heating issue (I believe) because when trying to run games it will run fine for a bit then stutter, then computer just shuts down and just won’t start again- (until I put new fan ontop of old cpu fan)

[spel_grammer_an_punct_polise]

If I were you I would start searching for a better heat-sync/fan combo.

[NoCmpromiz]

Just got back. (Have 50% of my Grandchildren till Labor Day so was out doing Grandpa things... ;-).

Here’s a thought - maybe the old fan is not sending its rpm signal to the mb so it shuts down? If you can get into the bios screen, see if there is a place where it lists fan rpm’s and cpu temp. If the old cpu fan is running and the heatsink fins aren’t full of fuzz it should be cooling the cpu, but if it’s sending a faulty or nonexistant rpm indication, most mb’s will either throttle back the cpu or shut off.

If you can see a rpm indication, one way to see if it is following the fan is to stick your finger on the fan to slow it down. That should show in the display.

If that is the case, figure out a way to juryrig the new fan on the old heatsink. Depending on how things are mounted, the fan could be held on the heat sink with some long sheet metal screws that screw into/between the fins on the heatsink..

It’s worth a try and it sure sounds like the original heatsink was adequate and if it’s just a fan issue, keep the heatsink with the ‘correct’ contact area and fix somehow the fan..

[NoCmpromiz]

Also, considering the vintage of your machine, your cpu fan bearings may be almost toast. It might spin when cold but seize up when it warms up/runs awhile. If you manually spin the fan it should spin freely and you shouldn’t feel any resistance worth talking about. If it ‘feels funny’ it probably is...

If it is seizing up, that would overheat your cpu and would shut it down.

[g.orwell]

I agree, the pads suck, clean the crap off the cpu (carefully) and apply a thin coat of heat sink compound to both the cpu and heatsink. AND clean the dust from the vents.

[g.orwell]

as long as it covers the cpu chip it will be fine

[g.orwell]

not sure what ya got there but maybe you can use the old heatsink and just install a new fan on it

[Bob434]

Yeah G I did that- had to modify the bracket to fit the old CPU heatsink as it was shaped different- Computer still wouldn’t start unfortunately

[Bob434]

not sure what is going on- I tried new cpu cooler- computer wouldn’t start- took fan off new cooler, put on old cpu cooler/heatsink- computer still won’t start-

Now, if I leave it off for a day or so, it will start- run for a little bit, then turn off like it has overheated- and will not start again-

I’m at a loss of what is causing htis

[Bob434]

[[If the old cpu fan is running and the heatsink fins aren’t full of fuzz it should be cooling the cpu, but if it’s sending a faulty or nonexistant rpm indication,]]

Clean fins- also I tried then new fan, on both new cpu cooler and old cooler- comp still won’t start-

[[but if it’s sending a faulty or nonexistant rpm indication, most mb’s will either throttle back the cpu or shut off.]]

That’s the weird thing- when it does start up, during start up I notice the cpu fan throttles back

[[If you can get into the bios screen, see if there is a place where it lists fan rpm’s and cpu temp.]]

I’ll have to do that- perhaps something got messed up in bios somehow-

[[If that is the case, figure out a way to juryrig the new fan on the old heatsink.]]

Yeah I did that- had to file down some of the new fan pegs to get it to sit low enough so that clamps on bracket would secure properly- but it’s working-

The fan signal to bios sounds like it may be off as something is not letting the computer start up- but the really wierd part is that if I leave computer unplugged for a day or so, it will start up again (or at least it has been displaying this weird behavior for months now as I’ve tried to trace down the problem)

It’s all probably way more work than it’s worth, as I can get a much faster computer for $100-$200 or so- I should probably just give up- but there’s just something in me that wants to see if the problem can be traced down and fixed

A battery wouldn’t cause this weird behavior would it? I replaced the battery, even trying two new ones, no difference, but perhaps the batteries were so old fro mthe store they were weak or something, who knows-