On the Meaning of “Natural Born Citizen”

Harvard Law Review ^ | Neal Kaytal and Paul Clement

[wideawake]

Very simple: if you are a citizen from birth you are a natural born citizen.

If you have to be naturalized before you can become a citizen, then you are not a natural born citizen.

There is no third category: you're either naturalized or you're natural born.

[SmokingJoe]

But, but Lord Trump of the House of Lords, that great legal authority, says Ted Cruz was born in Canada so cannot run for president. If Lord Trump says so, it must be do.

[dynoman]

Check this out, there appears to be a few issues:

To: Behind the Blue Wall

The “original” SR511 definition of NBC ( http://www.leahy.senate.gov/press/the-introduction-of-a-senate-resolution ) signed by Obama, Clinton, Leahy, Coburn, Webb and McCaskill and verified by Chertoff, states very plainly that NBC means born in the USA of two US citizen parents. The SR511 that Congress vetted McCain with ( https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/110/sres511/text ) is a watered down version but still states TWO US CITIZENS.

There is a reason Leahy has kept the original version on his website all these years.

104 posted on 1/6/2016 11:59:46 AM by bgill (CDC site, “We still do not know exactly how people are infected with Ebola”)
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/3380307/posts?page=104#104

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To: Wissa
“Don’t you think it would be better for Cruz to put all the documentation and facts out there”

Don’t hold your breath, looks like Cruz is going the Obama route

“At present, all FOIA (Freedom of Information Act) requests filed in search of any U.S. citizenship documents to confirm the true official U.S. citizenship status of Ted Cruz have been denied access. All citizenship records for Ted Cruz are sealed unless and until Ted Cruz agrees to allow any such records to be released by either U.S. or Canadian agencies.”
http://www.newswithviews.com/JBWilliams/williams317.htm

At the tail end of the article 6 paragraphs before the end.

115 posted on 1/6/2016 12:26:27 PM by jpsb
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/3380307/posts?page=115#115

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That said I think Trump and Cruz are coordinating - even on this birther thing.

[Tzfat]

Won’t matter. Trumpskis are worried that Cruz actually is conservative and their blow hard idol may not end up winning in Iowa and/or New Hapmshire.

[ripnbang]

1) Trump didn’t say “he” doesn’t think Cruz is ineligible. He said he has heard that said by others and it could be a problem for the party. He was responding to a question by a reporter.

2) Trump did not say Cruz was eligible previously. He said various people have said that and be understand is has been checked out and therefore Cruz should be fine.

Both are different than what’s being reported. Imagine that.

Is it tactical of fair game to say “others are mentioning it”? Absolutely. Is it fair game for Cruz to respond to it by saying other candidates are panicking or Trump “jumped the shark”? Absolutely. Does it mean there’s a “rift” between the two? No. They’re both running for President and are 1 or 2 in most polls. They know they would make a good team but they also both want to be top dog. its the nature of the business.

[Popman]

-—Neal Kaytal and Paul Clement——

Obviously, these two are Cruz bots.../S

[ripnbang]

I think you may be right.

[wideawake]

I’m overruling Lord Trump, because unlike Lord Trump both of my parents were natural born US citizens.

[ripnbang]

Actually, Trumpski’s are prett excited about Cruz being VP.

[Kenny]

BS! Trump didn’t say Cruz couldn’t run. He said it should be settled before the election or it could cause problems. When will the outright lies stop?

[dynoman]

Trump is addressing the dilemma republicans are creating for themselves by not being logically consistent. Many republicans/conservatives questioned Obama’s eligibility using a standard they now refuse to use with Cruz. Logical inconsistencies like that makes republicans/conservatives look like idiots.

[Utilizer]

So did they finally admit that 0bumkiss is not legally qualified to be POTUS?

[The All Knowing All Seeing Oz]

Exactly right. You are a citizen at the moment of birth, i.e. “natural born”, or made as if natural, i.e. “naturalized.”

The law specifies certain conditions under which a person is a citizen at the moment of birth, i.e. “natural born.” There are multiple ways to be natural born if not physically born within the 50 United States.

Cruz’s mother’s status clearly falls under that law, as did McCain’s parentage (He was born in the Panama Canal Zone) Romney’s (He was born in Mexico) and even Barry Goldwater (He was born in the Arizona Territory.)

Donald, run on the issues, not on this BS. Trump is a fool for having raised the issue.

[Uncle Sham]

I prefer to accept the definition from the first and third Congress which gave us the Naturalization Acts of 1790 and 1795. Together, they define someone born to citizen parents outside the jurisdiction of the United States as a "citizen".

Natural born refers to someone who can be nothing else because both parents are citizens of the United States and the birth occurred within the jurisdiction of the United States. A "law" or "statute" is not required to determine your citizenship stature, these are man-made definers as opposed to your natural condition defined by the nature of your birth circumstances. Thus "natural born".

[Maurice Tift]

All the sources routinely used to interpret the Constitution confirm that the phrase "natural born Citizen" has a specific meaning: namely, someone who was a U.S. citizen at birth with no need to go through a naturalization proceeding at some later time.

The founders had access to Vattel's The Law of Nations:

212. Of the citizens and natives.

"The citizens are the members of the civil society; bound to this society by certain duties, and subject to its authority, they equally participate in its advantages. The natives, or natural-born citizens, are those born in the country, of parents who are citizens. As the society cannot exist and perpetuate itself otherwise than by the children of the citizens, those children naturally follow the condition of their fathers, and succeed to all their rights. The society is supposed to desire this, in consequence of what it owes to its own preservation; and it is presumed, as matter of course, that each citizen, on entering into society, reserves to his children the right of becoming members of it. The country of the fathers is therefore that of the children; and these become true citizens merely by their tacit consent. We shall soon see whether, on their coming to the years of discretion, they may renounce their right, and what they owe to the society in which they were born. I say, that, in order to be of the country, it is necessary that a person be born of a father who is a citizen; for, if he is born there of a foreigner, it will be only the place of his birth, and not his country."

while the correct translation of the title yields: Of the citizens and naturals

[wideminded]

The “original” SR511 definition of NBC ... signed by Obama, Clinton, Leahy, Coburn, Webb and McCaskill and verified by Chertoff, states very plainly that NBC means born in the USA of two US citizen parents. The SR511 that Congress vetted McCain with ... is a watered down version but still states TWO US CITIZENS.

Neither one of those documents contains the word TWO although they do use the plural words: 'parents', 'citizens', and 'Americans'. Both documents and the associated remarks are clearly centered on the case of McCain.

BTW I didn't realize that McCain will be 80 this year.

[pepsi_junkie]

Ah, and suddenly the media is interested in what constitutes a natural born citizen.

[brothers4thID]

Of course Trump is worried. Cruz is leading in the first state to vote and in the states with the largest # of delegates. (CA and TX). Trump can’t attack Cruz on policy issues so he concern trolls about the birther issue.

[so_real]

Harvard Law Review? The same Harvard Law Review that Obama ran back in 1990 (link)? "Experts" on Constitutional law ... just like Obama.