Autopsy report: Terence Crutcher had PCP in his system when he died (Tulsa)

Tulsa World ^ | 10/11/2016 | Staff

[Paladin2]

All were clearly in danger. Different dangers, but still.

[rlmorel]

Well, the other poster seemed very interested in making sure everyone knew what his opinion was, but wasn’t interested in engaging in any dialogue that might explain why his outright dismissal of anyone who thinks there could be any reason whatsoever short of a gun in the dead man’s hand, is a shallow view of the situation.

[rlmorel]

Since the other poster who hasn’t been on FR all that long wasn’t interested in engaging in intelligent dialogue, let me ask you the rhetorical question: who do you think was in more danger there, the police or the black man they stopped?

[jimwatx]

So it’s required to be a Saint before one can claim bad behavior on the police? Was that officer aware of this guy’s character before they shot him? You are rationalizing this cops behavior to an incredibly ridiculous degree.

[Paladin2]

On a quantifiable, objective assesment, that is a very tough call. The perp, likely coming from an anti-authoritian culture might be more at risk due to likely popo order non-compliance.

[jimwatx]

What does my lengh of time on this forum have to do with the point I’m trying to make?

[rlmorel]

Would you think I was lying if I told you a police officer was four times more likely to die at the hands of a black man, than a black man is to die at the hands of a police officer?

[rlmorel]

I make the assumption you don’t understand how we engage in dialogue here at FR if you don’t engage in a two way conversation.

Although there are plenty who just post to voice an opinion, and we all do that.

But if someone asks me a pointed question on FR and I can see they are trying to engage in discourse, I usually participate.

[Paladin2]

You’d have to include the drug inebreation level in the analysis.

[rlmorel]

I disagree with the point you make about there being absolutely no reason for shooting this man. I am trying to help you see the side of those who think this wasn’t just a cold-blooded shooting.

[rlmorel]

I know, but on a basic level, let’s just say the cops pull a guy over for any reason, and he happens to be black, who is at greater risk in the encounter, in your opinion?

[rlmorel]

If I told you the risk was four times higher for the police with no other circumstances involved, does that sound like an exaggeration?

[PLMerite]

Suspected PCP ingestion coupled with the guy’s size would have raised the pucker factor a tad, I wager.

I don’t have a lot of sympathy for anyone who willingly takes that stuff. Even less if they’re a known pusher.

[rlmorel]

LOL, and by the way, I am not trying to lure you into a trap of some kind, I am framing it this way to make a point (I hope)

Besides, you have been on FR for a while and obviously know how to take care of yourself...:)

[jimwatx]

I don’t think it was a cold bolded shooting, I think it was the act of a woman who wasn’t psychologically equipped to handle the very serious demands of the job and over reacted.

[Repealthe17thAmendment]

So it’s required to be a Saint before one can claim bad behavior on the police? Was that officer aware of this guy’s character before they shot him? You are rationalizing this cops behavior to an incredibly ridiculous degree.

You have jumped to a great many conclusions.

Nothing in my comment indicates any opinion on the police. I never mentioned the police.

We'll let the jury decide that.

My only comment was in response to the family that portrayed this man inaccurately.

Some people would like to suggest that police have racist motivations for killing black men. They typically start out by declaring how the victim could never have been a threat to the police, and that the victim was a person of high moral character.

We later often learn that it is a shaky premise.

I can't say whether or not Crutcher was an imminent threat. But I can say with some certainty that people under the influence of PCP have been know to be violent. And that is no ridiculous rationalization.

[Paladin2]

To better define the situation/risk levels, an analysis of the outcomes of four LEOs not going into a surprise situation vs. one BLM, ranked by priors and possession of a Gun BURGLARY Loophole firearm, on drugs would likely give a better set of statistics.

[rlmorel]

I can agree with that assessment on some level without even knowing anything about the individual police officer. IIRC, the man was tased at the same time, so there was a heightened level of danger in the eyes of all the police at the scene.

The point I was trying to make was, it is dangerous for the police, far more dangerous. There is an epidemic of violence involving black men and police, but it isn't a four times greater risk of death for the police. I have posted this before, but it bears repeating:

Any time the narrative comes up where there it is asserted there is an epidemic of black men being shot by police officers, here is the statistic that should lead off the ensuing conversation:

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In 2015, according to federal crime statistics, a police officer of ANY race is 18 times more likely to die at the hands of a black man, than a black man is to die at the hands of a police officer.
"The Myths of Black Lives Matter" by Heather MacDonald)

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Here is an excellent video from Bill Whittle that puts things in the proper perspective:

"Black Lives Matter Kills People" by Bill Whittle
It is a 7 minute video which puts it in context, and explains much.

I bring up this point because it clearly demonstrates, according to the government's own statistics on race and crime, the real danger in any encounter between a black man and a police officer of any color is to the police.

And that is completely independent of any PCP use, erratic behavior, a car stopped dead in the middle of the road, and a man of large physical stature. There was ample reason for concern even without a weapon being pointed at them.

[Paladin2]

The perp was self pulled over. In the middle of the street.

[rlmorel]

The post at #58 was what I was driving at. As I implied at the end, if there are factors like those you and I pointed out, the risk is probably much greater, and even a police officer like this one who shot the man, perhaps even with her limited experience, could sense all too well the danger inherent in the situation with all those other things rolled in.