Posted on 09/26/2002 8:29:44 AM PDT by blam
Respectfully, this part-celt disagrees. I think the celts failed to leave very much impact, due partly to lack of a written language at the time, and lack of a centralized government.
Also, they didn't survive as the cultural basis for any single nation. For example, modern Ireland is little more celtic, than it is anglo-saxon or norman or viking. Of course, I do grant that the language(s) remains with a not insignificant number of people, mainly in Ireland, Wales and Brittany.
An uncle of mine, born in the mid-1800s in Minnesota, of Canadian-Irish-protestant (eg. Scots) origins, was named Adomnan. This is the name of St. Columba's scribe, another priest at Iona. Scottish and Irish protestants can be good celts, too.
That timing indication is right on for the time when David Lived.
>Though found in China, evidence suggests she came from Europe.
I don't know where they get that idea. Not much going on in Europe at that time, but there are lot's of documented happenings with all the tribes of Israel.
>Respectfully, this part-celt disagrees.
I agree with you on this part. There were no CELTS at that time, only Proto-Celts. (Anything before 610BC or is is Proto-Celtic. They are related.) While they did seem to have a large impact, there numbers were nothing like the REAL CELTS who followed, a thousand or so years later. The major Celtic dig at Hallstatt is a good example of that.
>I think the celts failed to leave very much impact,
Gotta disagree on that one. The Celtic impact on western civilization alone is immense. The CELTS became Western Europe and offspring and their total population today is around 1 BILLION.
>due partly to lack of a written language
The "lack" of written language was deliberate. It was not that were incapeable of writing as it sometimes alleged, but writing was prohibited by their theology. Their use of "oral tradition" carried them through quite nicely.
>... lack of a centralized government.
Centralized government didn't really make any sense since they were split into 10 tribes to begin with, and they were scattered all over the European and west Asian frontier. Their population size was over 5 MILLION at the time they were first identified, about 600 BC, at the same place the Lost Tribes of Israel disappeared. Without the internet for communications it would have been tough to hold them all together {ggg}.
>Also, they didn't survive as the cultural basis for any single nation.
True, but they DID survive as the cultural basis for the entire western hemisphere, made up of many tribes and nations, most of them "King-based" in accordance with prophesy.
>For example, modern Ireland is little more celtic, than it is anglo-saxon or norman or viking. Of course, I do grant that the language(s) remains with a not insignificant number of people, mainly in Ireland, Wales and Brittany.
Most of that unfortunately is ethnic and cultural myth. The Anglo-Saxons, Normans and Vikings WERE also Celts.
I spent time at the University of Dublin (Trinity College) as a Post-Doctoral Student studying Ancient Celtic History. (Did the same thing at Oxford University a little earlier). Turns out the Irish and Brits are terribly anal-retentive when it comes to their "Celtic heritage", to the point they virtually ignore the vast Celtic history of Continental Europe, which contains FAR more Celts.
Much of what we hear today from Ireland and England (Scotland, Wales, Cornwall, Brittany, etc.) is designed to encourage the local tourist trade and should not be confused with historic fact. To really understand the Celts you also have to understand the European Celts.
Please check post #5, especially paragraphs 6 and 7 to see the broader picture of Who Were (and Are Today) The Celts.
-LT
Maybe you have been reading too much Roman history? {ggg}.
Were the Romans Barbaric with their centuries long blood lust for Christians and others in the Coliseum? Were the Romans Warlike? Illiteracy becomes a relative thing when keeping written records was specifically prohibited.
No, the Romans were civilization itself. If you don't believe that just find a Roman and ask. Oh wait, there aren't any Romans anymore. It doesn't matter, the center of civilization was transferred to the Celts who aren't barbarian anymore, depending on who you ask these days.
At that exact time, the Celts at Hallstadt were making fabric from exactly the same material (European sheep wool), using exactly the same production techniques and this resulted in clothing and designs exactly the same as at Hallstadt. There was, as yet unexplained, a connection. (Elizabeth Barber, Mummies Of Urumchi--Victor Mair, The Tarim Mummies)
Garde la Foi, mes amis! Nous nous sommes les sauveurs de la République! Maintenant et Toujours!
(Keep the Faith, my friends! We are the saviors of the Republic! Now and Forever!)
LonePalm, le Républicain du verre cassé (The Broken Glass Republican)
Great Answer! (Now what was the question...?)
Ah, right you are about that my friend. Hallstadt was a boomer to be sure, but mostly later one. The link you refer to is an excellent and I think important one between some Chinese finds and the Celts.
I was thinking of the time of David, which was ~1000 BC. The "Celts" at Hallstadt at that time were of the "Proto-Celt" variety. Related for sure, but displaced in time from the big Celtic invasion from the East which occured later.
That's a good answer, if you rely on Roman history about itself. {ggg}.
We know the Celtic population about 600 BC was over 6 MILLION people, and ~10% of the global population. (The global Celtic population today is near 1 BILLION out of a global 6 BILLION so is still ~10%+).
Do you have any commensurate Roman populations and Global percentages with which to make a meaningful comparison?
More mysteries.
It's amazing, I think I have made a connection of the Tarim Mummies to a Chinese woman (young and educated) in my local Chinese restaurant.
She was floored (as well as her husband) when I told her that I thought she may be a Hakka Chinese. She said that she was and sat there with her mouth open as I told her how we may be related through the Tarim Basin.
She just sat there shaking her head 'yes' as I told her (what I knew) of the history of the Hakka. She said that all had often wondered where the 'wavy' hair and high nose bridges of their 'clan' had originated.
The Hakka migrated all the way across China and were know by all as the 'friendly guests.' She said she was well aware of the 'guest' part but had not heard it associated with 'friendly.' Her husband, who is from Hong Kong said, 'who are you'? LOL. (Isn't this stuff GREAT!!)
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