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FR Debate: Intelligent Design vs. Birth Defects, Can They Be Reconciled?
Discovery Health & Multiple Medical Sites ^ | 11/11/05

Posted on 11/11/2005 4:47:36 PM PST by Wolfstar

Each year in the United States, about 150,000 babies are born with birth defects ranging from mild to life threatening. While progress has been made in the detection and treatment of birth defects, they remain the leading cause of death in the first year of life. Birth defects are often the result of genetic and environmental factors, but the causes of well over half of all birth defects are currently unknown.

Following is a partial list of birth defects:

Achondroplasia/Dwarfism

Hemochromatosis

Alpha-1 Antitrypsin Deficiency

Huntington's Disease

Anencephaly

Hydrocephalus

Arnold-Chiari Malformation

Klinefelter's Syndrome

Ataxia Telangiectasia

Leukodystrophies

Blood coagulation disorders/Hemophilia

Marfan Syndrome

Brain malformations/genetic brain disorders

Metabolic disorders

Canavan Disease

Muscular Dystrophy

Cancer: Neonatal, newborn, infant and childhood

Neural tube defects/Spina Bifida

Cerebral Palsy

Neurofibromatosis

Cleft lip and palate

Niemann-Pick Disease

Club foot/club hand

Osteogenesis Imperfecta (brittle bone disease)

Congenital heart disease

Phenylketonuria

Conjoined twins

Prader-Willi Syndrome

Cystic Fibrosis

Progeria (advanced aging in children)

Down Syndrome

Sickle Cell Anemia

Ehlers-Danlos Syndrome

Spinal Muscular Atrophy

Eye, ear and speech defects

Tay-Sachs Disease

Fragile X Syndrome

Tuberous Sclerosis

Gaucher's Disease

Turner's Syndrome

Genital and urinary tract defects

Wilson's Disease

Some birth/genetic defects, such as near-sightedness, are mild and do not affect the person's ability to lead a normal life. Others are so severe that the person has no chance to even live. Efficiency and economy are part of intelligently designed systems. If the "design" of human systems is so intelligent, why do tragic inefficiencies such as the following occur at all? Warning, the linked photos are graphic medical images, and are very, very sad.

Conjoined twins, i.e., monozygous twinning in which there is fusion of the twins. The popular term is "Siamese" twins. This happens when identical twin embryos become fused together during the very early stages of development. Conjoined twins occur in an estimated one in 200,000 births, with approximately half being stillborn. Here are links to three photos of severely conjoined twins:

Photo 1: one head, two bodies

Photo 2: essentially one torso between two babies

Photo 3: profound fusion

Neural tube defects are are one of the more common congenital anomalies. Such defects result from improper embryonic neural tube closure. The most minimal defect is called spina bifida, with failure of the vertebral body to completely form, but the defect is not open. Open neural tube defects with lack of a skin covering, can include a meningocele, in which meninges protrude through the defect. Here is a link to a severe neural tube defect.

Photo 4

Defects of the head/brain: In the linked photo a large encephalocele that merges with the scalp above is protruding from the back of the head. The encephalocele extends down to partially cover a rachischisis on the back. This baby also has a retroflexed head from iniencephaly.

Photo 5

The form of neural tube defect in the next linked photo is known as exencephaly. The cranial vault is not completely present, but a brain is present because it was not completely exposed to amniotic fluid. Such an event is very rare. It may be part of craniofacial clefts associated with the limb-body wall complex, which results from early amnion disruption.

Photo 6

Congenital and pediatric neoplasms: One type that can occur is a teratoma. The next linked photo shows a large nasopharyngeal teratoma that is protruding from the oral cavity.

Photo 7

Tumors: In the next linked photo there is a large mass involving the left upper arm and left chest of the baby. This congenital neoplasm turned out to be a lymphangioma. This baby and the one in Photo 9 were essentially riddled with cancer before birth and shortly afterwards.

Photo 8

Next is a gross neuroblastoma arising in the right adrenal gland. It is the most common pediatric malignancy in infancy, and 75% of cases are diagnosed in children less than 4 years old. These tumors most often present as an abdominal or mediastinal mass.

Photo 9


TOPICS:
KEYWORDS: birth; crevolist; defects; design; genetic; intelligent; klinefeltersyndrome; kyrieelieson; philosophy; religion; theology
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To: js1138
All the ID advocates are willing to swear under oath in court that intelligent design has nothing to do with religion, and that the designer is not God.

So far, at least, the responses on this thread seem to indicate it has everything to do with religious belief.

101 posted on 11/11/2005 5:52:48 PM PST by Wolfstar (Whatever happened to "These Colors Don't Run?")
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To: Wolfstar
With all due respect, I don't see the difference.

I will take you at your word and assume you're being honest here.

The difference is, if Texas Transplant said what you changed their words to say, which was that the topic was dumb then the topic itself is inherently not worthy of discussion. If one takes Texas Transplant's words as they were written the comment stated that the way you began the topic was dumb...which suggests that it was poorly founded or that by the nature of it's presentation and beginnings will fail to lead to a valuable discussion. The value of the topic itself is not what was stated was dumb but rather the approach to discussing it. So, what Texas Transplant's words addressed was the approach to the topic, you turned that into them making a claim regarding the topic...which they did not.

To clarify something here, I don't know Texas Transplant or have I ever encountered a post of theirs, so I don't know what they believe about the topic itself...that was not what their post addressed.

102 posted on 11/11/2005 5:53:42 PM PST by highlander_UW (I don't know what my future holds, but I know Who holds my future)
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To: cornelis

Thanks for your very reasonable reply, Cornelis.


103 posted on 11/11/2005 5:55:02 PM PST by Wolfstar (Whatever happened to "These Colors Don't Run?")
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To: Wolfstar

That would imply a lot of perjury going on. It would also imply that a lot of FReeper ID advocates have been lying.

I have always been mystified why ID advocates get snippy when you question the competence of the designer.


104 posted on 11/11/2005 5:55:29 PM PST by js1138 (Great is the power of steady misrepresentation.)
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To: MamaB
How about the Henson or Hanson girls who are either preteens or teens now. They have 2 heads, 2 legs, and 2 arms. Yet they play sports and are well adjusted. I love to watch the tv shows about them. Then there are the 2 ladies who are joined at the head who have successful lives. One even has a singing career. Maybe they are sent here to make people realize that it is what is on the inside that counts than appearance.

You'll find no argument from me. I don't determine a person's value by the health or function of their body.

105 posted on 11/11/2005 5:55:39 PM PST by highlander_UW (I don't know what my future holds, but I know Who holds my future)
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To: zeeba neighba

Those things you list are not in the nature of Down's, but in the reaction of ignorant people to children with the syndrome.


106 posted on 11/11/2005 5:56:14 PM PST by From many - one.
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To: js1138

What is this fascination that evolutionists have with everyone but themselves always "lying". I think you all do protest too much.


107 posted on 11/11/2005 5:56:58 PM PST by zeeba neighba (no crocs!)
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To: xzins
Why does it shake your faith?

I'm not sure I understand your question, xzins. I merely said that birth defects, particularly the severe ones, are CAPABLE of shaking one's religious faith. I meant that in a generic sense.

108 posted on 11/11/2005 5:57:13 PM PST by Wolfstar (Whatever happened to "These Colors Don't Run?")
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To: MamaB

see my post 81


109 posted on 11/11/2005 5:57:48 PM PST by From many - one.
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To: js1138
I have always been mystified why ID advocates get snippy when you question the competence of the designer.

In your case He definitely made a big mistake. But no reason to get "snippy" about it, right? No reason to get personal. You face a grave and have the forces of nature to thank for that.

110 posted on 11/11/2005 5:58:15 PM PST by Fester Chugabrew
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To: From many - one.

Amazing


111 posted on 11/11/2005 5:58:22 PM PST by zeeba neighba (no crocs!)
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To: Ghost of Philip Marlowe
Why is this on breaking news?

It isn't. I put it in extended news.

112 posted on 11/11/2005 5:58:36 PM PST by Wolfstar (Whatever happened to "These Colors Don't Run?")
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To: Fester Chugabrew

Can't win on the issues, start with the ... well you get the picture


113 posted on 11/11/2005 5:59:55 PM PST by zeeba neighba (no crocs!)
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To: zeeba neighba

What is amazing?


114 posted on 11/11/2005 6:01:45 PM PST by From many - one.
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To: zeeba neighba

"It would be better . . ."


115 posted on 11/11/2005 6:02:14 PM PST by Fester Chugabrew
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To: From many - one.

I can't tell you


116 posted on 11/11/2005 6:02:16 PM PST by zeeba neighba (no crocs!)
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To: zeeba neighba
What is this fascination that evolutionists have with everyone but themselves always "lying". I think you all do protest too much.

Perjury is always interesting, particulary when the people doing it are motivated by religion. It's just one of those paradoxes.

117 posted on 11/11/2005 6:02:20 PM PST by js1138 (Great is the power of steady misrepresentation.)
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To: highlander_UW; TMSuchman; zeeba neighba
More hatred from the social darwinists: Having disabled babies will be 'sin', says scientist - "Soon it will be a sin of parents to have a child that carries the heavy burden of genetic disease. We are entering a world where we have to consider the quality of our children."
118 posted on 11/11/2005 6:02:42 PM PST by Tailgunner Joe
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To: Wolfstar
I don't presume to know anything. Do the proponents of the theory of intelligent design not welcome questions? When the theory is taught in schools, will children be discouraged from asking questions?

I would guess when a child raises their hand and asks "What's the purpose?", they'll be given the same answer for ID as for evolution.

If these questions are so important to you, then I expect you have an answer for it regarding evolution.

119 posted on 11/11/2005 6:02:48 PM PST by Rightwing Conspiratr1 (Lock-n-load!)
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To: Fester Chugabrew
You face a grave and have the forces of nature to thank for that.

I'm always amused by people who substitute implied threats for argument.

120 posted on 11/11/2005 6:03:52 PM PST by js1138 (Great is the power of steady misrepresentation.)
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