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Intelligent Design Might Be Meeting Its Maker
The New York Times ^ | December 4, 2005 | LAURIE GOODSTEIN

Posted on 12/03/2005 5:28:45 PM PST by Right Wing Professor

TO read the headlines, intelligent design as a challenge to evolution seems to be building momentum.

...

Behind the headlines, however, intelligent design as a field of inquiry is failing to gain the traction its supporters had hoped for. It has gained little support among the academics who should have been its natural allies. And if the intelligent design proponents lose the case in Dover, there could be serious consequences for the movement's credibility.

On college campuses, the movement's theorists are academic pariahs, publicly denounced by their own colleagues. Design proponents have published few papers in peer-reviewed scientific journals.

(Excerpt) Read more at nytimes.com ...


TOPICS: Heated Discussion
KEYWORDS: crevolist; evochat; intelligentdesign
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To: Agdistis; Zeroisanumber
Remember this, if I am wrong then I have lost nothing but if you are wrong then you have eternity to think it over.

Why would you assume Zeroisanumber is a Hindu?

221 posted on 12/03/2005 8:08:15 PM PST by Gumlegs
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To: Liberty Wins

What research are the IDers proposing? If there is any, why can't the DI, the ICR, the Scientologists, or the Wahhabis fund it?


222 posted on 12/03/2005 8:08:45 PM PST by Virginia-American
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To: Sun
PH: I'm cranking up the ping machine ..."

Sun: Good idea. This weak NYSlimes story needs HELP!!!!


HA HA HA HA HA HA!!

Yeh thats the ticket.., PH will get right on it!!

HA HA HA HA HA HA!!

Wolf
223 posted on 12/03/2005 8:10:41 PM PST by RunningWolf (Vet US Army Air Cav 1975)
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To: shuckmaster

Sex ed fantasy gay classes are not electives. One guy went to jail for trying to prevent his son from attending. And I never advocated such. I find it ironic that Darwinists have no problem with them in fact, but solely with ID lately. Public education's problem is not ID. Get a grip.


224 posted on 12/03/2005 8:12:56 PM PST by JudgemAll (Condemn me, make me naked and kill me, or be silent for ever on my gun ownership and law enforcement)
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To: CarolinaGuitarman; Timmy
And what's with this *goatheader* crap? Something to do with your personal obsession?

No in fact it probably has much more to do with your posting history. You know, all that stuff you bring to the table in the name of science and the cause of evo-cultism.

Wolf
225 posted on 12/03/2005 8:14:02 PM PST by RunningWolf (Vet US Army Air Cav 1975)
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To: shuckmaster
"Schools teach "electives" so people can get an education in what interests them."

If they can read, that is. It puzzles me why you put your trust in a bureaucratic organization that has made illiteracy a way of life in America . . .

226 posted on 12/03/2005 8:14:02 PM PST by Liberty Wins (Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of all who threaten it.)
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To: Right Wing Professor
What a silly article!
Should psychology and psychiatry and "Women's And Gender Studies", also be killed and buried because they similarly don't "fit into" the science departments?

The obsessive determination to kill ID only reveals another agenda, and it ain't pretty; but it is very San Francisco!

227 posted on 12/03/2005 8:14:06 PM PST by Publius6961 (The IQ of California voters is about 420........... .............cumulatively)
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To: RussP
That is the kind of ridiculous standard evolutionist require for ID.

No, that is the standard that scientist require of science.
228 posted on 12/03/2005 8:14:56 PM PST by ARCADIA (Abuse of power comes as no surprise)
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To: reasonisfaith
A curriculum that includes ID is a curriculum that will encourage sophisticated thinking--I would appreciate it if somebody would make the attempt to explain how it could be detrimental.

I would argue that there's nothing sophisticated about charlatan pseudo science. But, to get to your point, other than dishonest deception that seems to be synonymous with the ID crowd, I don't see anything wrong an elective class in ID. That's not the issue of the debate. The issue is that dishonest people with a dubious agenda are trying to sneak this charlatan pseudoscience into science class thus depriving prospective career scientists of their education and that is very detrimental.

229 posted on 12/03/2005 8:15:28 PM PST by shuckmaster
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To: peyton randolph

I never knew the Ark was built with steel I-Beams ...


230 posted on 12/03/2005 8:18:21 PM PST by 11th_VA (Geezee Freepin Peezee ...)
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To: rootkidslim

No, you are mistaken. Newton's three laws are a special case, and continue to be useful until you begin to approach light speed. A recent poll of British scientists voted Newton as the greatest scientist of all time, and Einstein second.

I majored in physics at Harvard before switching majors, and I can assure you that we studied differential equations (mostly Newton's idea) and classical dynamic theory as well as Einstein.

Not to teach Newton in school because he is "outmoded" would be the height of stupidity. F=MA continues to apply in the practical world.


231 posted on 12/03/2005 8:19:28 PM PST by Cicero (Marcus Tullius)
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To: ARCADIA
"that is the standard that scientist require of science."

Like the standards used by Arnd Leike of the University of Munich, in demonstrating that beer froth obeys the mathematical Law of Exponential Decay?

[REFERENCE: "Demonstration of the Exponential Decay Law Using Beer Froth," Arnd Leike, European Journal of Physics, vol. 23, January 2002, pp. 21-26.]

232 posted on 12/03/2005 8:20:11 PM PST by Liberty Wins (Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of all who threaten it.)
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To: phantomworker

see discussion at
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Chaos_theory

and also

http://www.ncst.ernet.in/kbcs/vivek/issues/11.4/puneet/puneet.html

Determinism: Determinism in comparison to stochastic behavior depends on the number of dimensions in the system. The number of dimensions in a system is the total number of independent units (after converting the derived units) present in the system. For example, the number of dimensions in velocity , is 1+1=2. A dimension of ten or more is not computationally feasible and stochastic behavior is used in such conditions. The difference between Stochastic behavior and Chaotic behavior is that the output of Chaotic systems is exponential whereas that of Stochastic systems is random


233 posted on 12/03/2005 8:20:47 PM PST by JudgemAll (Condemn me, make me naked and kill me, or be silent for ever on my gun ownership and law enforcement)
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To: Liberty Wins
If they can read, that is.

I've never met a scientist who couldn't read.

234 posted on 12/03/2005 8:21:13 PM PST by shuckmaster
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To: Cicero
Describe for me, with clinical precision, an experiment in ID. Describe an experiment wherein the outcome of "G-d did it" is not known before the results are in.

ID isn't science, it is a wish.

235 posted on 12/03/2005 8:22:34 PM PST by muir_redwoods (Free Sirhan Sirhan, after all, the bastard who killed Mary Jo Kopechne is walking around free)
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To: ARCADIA

"No, that is the standard that scientist require of science."

Are you claiming that a true scientist must reject the theory that the message, "E = MC^2" found on the beach was written by an intelligent being?

If so, then the game is over. Checkmate.


236 posted on 12/03/2005 8:23:01 PM PST by RussP
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To: shuckmaster; whispering out loud
It makes a whole lot more sense that the magic man in the sky.

Your description or concept reveals only the smallness of your mind, nothing else.

Wolf
237 posted on 12/03/2005 8:23:34 PM PST by RunningWolf (Vet US Army Air Cav 1975)
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To: shuckmaster
Ive never met a scientist who couldn't read.

Wait until the folks pushing ID take over. It won't be long after that.

238 posted on 12/03/2005 8:24:16 PM PST by Gumlegs
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To: muir_redwoods

see post 214.


239 posted on 12/03/2005 8:25:17 PM PST by RussP
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To: shuckmaster

And how can one idea addressed in one area of one branch of science taught in one year of high school possibly be "depriving prospective career scientists of their education"?

It's not like these kids have never heard of the notion of ID or creation before. Teaching as if they don't exist is silly. Fine. They're not "science" as you guys define it but covering the concept that the universe was created and designed (and not teaching any one specific creation account)in a few minutes of a class is not going to warp someone for life.

Get a grip.


240 posted on 12/03/2005 8:25:49 PM PST by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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