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Intelligent Design case decided - Dover, Pennsylvania, School Board loses [Fox News Alert]
Fox News | 12/20/05

Posted on 12/20/2005 7:54:38 AM PST by snarks_when_bored

Fox News alert a few minutes ago says the Dover School Board lost their bid to have Intelligent Design introduced into high school biology classes. The federal judge ruled that their case was based on the premise that Darwin's Theory of Evolution was incompatible with religion, and that this premise is false.


TOPICS: Heated Discussion
KEYWORDS: biology; creation; crevolist; dover; education; evolution; intelligentdesign; keywordpolice; ruling; scienceeducation
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Just a quick take...
1 posted on 12/20/2005 7:54:39 AM PST by snarks_when_bored
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To: snarks_when_bored

Reason and good sense triumph.


2 posted on 12/20/2005 7:55:48 AM PST by Ace of Spades (Sed quis custodiet ipsos custodes?)
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To: PatrickHenry

PING


3 posted on 12/20/2005 7:55:52 AM PST by peyton randolph (<a href="http://clinton.senate.gov/">shrew</a>)
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To: Ace of Spades

Yup.


4 posted on 12/20/2005 7:56:37 AM PST by snarks_when_bored
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To: snarks_when_bored

Legislating from the Bench.


5 posted on 12/20/2005 7:57:32 AM PST by bulldozer
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To: snarks_when_bored

Another judge (an agent of the government) making an official government proclamation about what is and isn't religion.

And I thought the constitution forbid the GOVERNMENT from establishing religion. Judges seem to be free from this restriction, and rule all the time about what IS and ISN'T religion.

I'd feel pretty upset if some judge said a symbol of MY religion was acceptable because it wasn't REALLY a religion.


6 posted on 12/20/2005 7:57:39 AM PST by CharlesWayneCT
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To: snarks_when_bored

Another defeat for the American Taliban.


7 posted on 12/20/2005 7:57:40 AM PST by Kjobs (Murtha IS A COWARD!! Go Jean Schmidt!)
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To: snarks_when_bored

Thank God!


8 posted on 12/20/2005 7:57:44 AM PST by Paradox (Time to sharpen ole Occam's Razor.)
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To: snarks_when_bored

Thank The Sum of All Laws of the Universe, our children may yet grow up able to compete with other scientific minds in the world.


9 posted on 12/20/2005 7:58:36 AM PST by King of Florida
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To: snarks_when_bored

Good. Intelligent design doesn't belong in science classes.


10 posted on 12/20/2005 7:58:47 AM PST by saganite (The poster formerly known as Arkie 2)
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To: snarks_when_bored

What was the count?


11 posted on 12/20/2005 7:59:32 AM PST by nuffsenuff (Don't get stuck on Stupid - General Russ Honore Sept 21, 2005)
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To: snarks_when_bored

Great! Teach creation in sunday school, not science class. That's where it always belonged.


12 posted on 12/20/2005 8:00:14 AM PST by Alter Kaker ("Whatever tears one sheds, in the end one always blows one's nose." - Heine)
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To: Kjobs
Another defeat for the American Taliban.

Next thing they will be shooting people in the head.(/S)

BTW ,Your post is moronic.

13 posted on 12/20/2005 8:00:19 AM PST by sausageseller (Look out for the jackbooted spelling police. There! Everywhere!(revised cause the "man" accosted me!)
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To: snarks_when_bored

Yes! I wonder what housing costs are in Dover, PA?


14 posted on 12/20/2005 8:00:28 AM PST by Blzbba ("Shop Smart. Shop S-Mart" - Ashe, Housewares)
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To: From many - one.

Check later to see how thread evolves.


15 posted on 12/20/2005 8:01:50 AM PST by From many - one.
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To: CharlesWayneCT

The constitution doesn't say anything about practicing your religion in a public school.

I don't believe this judge said you can't go to the church of your choice and worship any way you choose. That's what the separation of church and state is all about, not teaching religious "theories" in science class.


16 posted on 12/20/2005 8:02:27 AM PST by saganite (The poster formerly known as Arkie 2)
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To: nuffsenuff

Judge's ruling, as I understand it.


17 posted on 12/20/2005 8:02:32 AM PST by snarks_when_bored
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To: CharlesWayneCT
Another judge (an agent of the government) making an official government proclamation about what is and isn't religion.

No. He decided what is and what is not science.
18 posted on 12/20/2005 8:03:33 AM PST by BikerNYC (Modernman should not have been banned.)
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To: bulldozer

How so? Religion does not belong in our schools science classes, why not? Because it's not science it's religion. Seems more like common sense to me.


19 posted on 12/20/2005 8:03:58 AM PST by JNL
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To: King of Florida

"Thank The Sum of All Laws of the Universe, our children may yet grow up able to compete with other scientific minds in the world."
---
Yes through homeschooling.

Oh...were you meaning public schools?


20 posted on 12/20/2005 8:04:33 AM PST by Stark_GOP
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To: Ace of Spades
Agree. All I want is a testible hypothesis from the ID crowd. Telling me i "gotta believe" isn't science.
21 posted on 12/20/2005 8:06:21 AM PST by airforceF4
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To: Alter Kaker

Because evolution is the only scientificly proven "theory" about the existence ofthe universe.

I always thought we are told to be tolerant of other peoples beliefs and their world views. All are equal unless it involves God.


22 posted on 12/20/2005 8:06:29 AM PST by laxin4him (They will know by our love not our picket lines)
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To: VadeRetro; Junior; longshadow; RadioAstronomer; Doctor Stochastic; js1138; Shryke; RightWhale; ...
Evolution Ping

The List-O-Links
A conservative, pro-evolution science list, now with over 330 names.
See the list's explanation, then FReepmail to be added or dropped.
To assist beginners: But it's "just a theory", Evo-Troll's Toolkit,
and How to argue against a scientific theory.

23 posted on 12/20/2005 8:08:36 AM PST by PatrickHenry (... endless horde of misguided Luddites ...)
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To: snarks_when_bored
Obviously the Judge flunked Bio 101. Evolution is predicated upon total randomness. Mutations are random, micro- and macroevolution are random, Miller and Urey origin of life needs no procreator - it was a random event (even though their work has been proven to be totally false).

Of course Darwinism is incompatible with religion. It is secular by design. No God is needed in their world. In fact a God, if proven, would eviscerate their theory. They can't afford even a glimmer of a hint that God might actually exist or have created the world.

24 posted on 12/20/2005 8:08:38 AM PST by Doc Savage ("Guys, I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more COWBELL...Bruce Dickinson)
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To: airforceF4

I have always wanted a "testible hypothesis" from the evolution crowd but there is no such testible hyposthesis to be able to get something from nothing.

They can always produce results from already created materials but have yet to create something from nothing.


25 posted on 12/20/2005 8:08:48 AM PST by laxin4him (They will know by our love not our picket lines)
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To: laxin4him
Because evolution is the only scientificly proven "theory" about the existence ofthe universe.

Correct.

I always thought we are told to be tolerant of other peoples beliefs and their world views. All are equal unless it involves God.

I'm not saying we shouldn't be respectful of creation accounts, but we can be respectful without teaching them in science class.

26 posted on 12/20/2005 8:09:27 AM PST by Alter Kaker ("Whatever tears one sheds, in the end one always blows one's nose." - Heine)
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To: snarks_when_bored

Good!


27 posted on 12/20/2005 8:09:40 AM PST by RadioAstronomer (Senior member of Darwin Central)
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To: airforceF4
Telling me i "gotta believe" isn't science.

Not in the slightest. It's why people 500 years ago believed the Sun revolved around the Earth.

28 posted on 12/20/2005 8:11:28 AM PST by Ace of Spades (Sed quis custodiet ipsos custodes?)
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To: From many - one.

Well someone with a higher order sense had to CREATE the thread!! /s


29 posted on 12/20/2005 8:11:31 AM PST by bubman
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To: snarks_when_bored

Quick read and I you've got to like this

"Those who disagree with our holding will likely mark it as the product of an
activist judge. If so, they will have erred as this is manifestly not an activist Court.
Rather, this case came to us as the result of the activism of an ill-informed faction
on a school board, aided by a national public interest law firm eager to find a
constitutional test case on ID,"....The breathtaking inanity of the
Board’s decision is evident when considered against the factual backdrop which
has now been fully revealed through this trial. The students, parents, and teachers
of the Dover Area School District deserved better than to be dragged into this legal maelstrom, with its resulting utter waste of monetary and personal resources.


30 posted on 12/20/2005 8:11:43 AM PST by JNL
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To: snarks_when_bored

As expected. I'm looking forward to reading the actual ruling.

In the meantime, I have my bag of popcorn here, and will watch the proceedings in the thread.


31 posted on 12/20/2005 8:12:05 AM PST by MineralMan (godless atheist)
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To: Doc Savage

As I understand it, evolution theory (of whatever variety) doesn't have anything to say about the origin of the cosmos and the initial conditions attendant thereto.


32 posted on 12/20/2005 8:12:07 AM PST by snarks_when_bored
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To: BikerNYC
The Judge didn't "decide"He looked at the common, accepted practice of the scientific method and the accompanying practice of peer review. ID has no peer review. Nor is it science. IMHO
33 posted on 12/20/2005 8:12:09 AM PST by airforceF4
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From the blog of the National Center for Science Education:

The much-awaited decision in the Kitzmiller et al. v. Dover Area School District is now available.

The 139 page document finds for the plaintiffs.

Judge Jones finds that “intelligent design” is not science. The DASD ID policy violates both purpose and effect prongs of the Lemon test, and also violates the Pennsylvania constitution.

34 posted on 12/20/2005 8:13:06 AM PST by PatrickHenry (... endless horde of misguided Luddites ...)
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To: PatrickHenry
Sounds like what pretty much had to happen based on the evidence at that trial is happening.
35 posted on 12/20/2005 8:13:22 AM PST by VadeRetro (Liberalism is a cancer on society. Creationism is a cancer on conservatism.)
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To: JNL
JNL quote:"How so? Religion does not belong in our schools science classes, why not? Because it's not science it's religion. Seems more like common sense to me."

When it is God's hand which is holding atoms together, which is the reason God belongs in the science classroom.

36 posted on 12/20/2005 8:13:35 AM PST by bulldozer
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To: snarks_when_bored

Hopefully the school board won't appeal given their new members & the last election. Once is enough. They need not embarass themselves any further.


37 posted on 12/20/2005 8:13:53 AM PST by gdani
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To: Doc Savage
In fact a God, if proven, would eviscerate their theory.

Totally false. Most religions both now and in the past are perfectly compatible with Darwin's theory. In fact, if a God were proven to exist, from a rational standpoint what it would eviscerate is the notion that Genesis is literal history.

38 posted on 12/20/2005 8:13:59 AM PST by AntiGuv ()
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To: snarks_when_bored

Well, duh!!

Was any other outcome really expected? Thanks for posting it though!


39 posted on 12/20/2005 8:14:10 AM PST by phantomworker (We don't see things as they are, we see things as WE are.<==> Perception is everything.)
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To: airforceF4

Goddidit, goldang it. And if you don't agree, you're a bloodsucking Commie leftist Democrat and should be hung with all the other traitors. [/sarc]


40 posted on 12/20/2005 8:14:14 AM PST by MineralMan (godless atheist)
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To: Alter Kaker

I forgot to add the sarcasm but I am sure you got that. Never really have found in all my reading where evolution is scientifically proven. The evolution crowd still can't get around creating something from nothing though. I can't find a way around that one to start let alone the complexities of the universe.


41 posted on 12/20/2005 8:14:42 AM PST by laxin4him (They will know by our love not our picket lines)
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To: bulldozer
When it is God's hand which is holding atoms together, which is the reason God belongs in the science classroom.

Sure, God made the rain fall, so why bother learning about silly things like the water cycle. /sarc

42 posted on 12/20/2005 8:15:05 AM PST by Ace of Spades (Sed quis custodiet ipsos custodes?)
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To: bulldozer

Yes but who's version of God, would that be a Catholic version, or do we all get a couple of snakes and go at it.


43 posted on 12/20/2005 8:15:23 AM PST by JNL
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To: Doc Savage
Obviously the Judge flunked Bio 101.

Obviously the Judge all the biology we've done since the late 19th century flunked Bio 101.

44 posted on 12/20/2005 8:15:27 AM PST by VadeRetro (Liberalism is a cancer on society. Creationism is a cancer on conservatism.)
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To: Alter Kaker

"Because evolution is the only scientificly proven "theory" about the existence ofthe universe.

Really? Can you operationally define the dependent and independent variables that functioned in the experiment that 'proved' evolution?

This is not an attack, I'm just curious about the parameters of the scientific experiment that 'proved' evolution theory to be correct.


45 posted on 12/20/2005 8:15:47 AM PST by wolf24
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To: CharlesWayneCT
Another judge (an agent of the government) making an official government proclamation about what is and isn't religion.

Well, duh -- that is a necessary judicial function.

For example, if some clown in the federal pen declares that he just converted to a religion that requires him to dine on sirloin steak and pistachio ice cream every day and sues to be provided with those delicacies, then the judge is going to have to rule on whether or not this is a genuine religion or an excuse to pester the prison authorities. The same principle applies here.

46 posted on 12/20/2005 8:15:47 AM PST by steve-b (A desire not to butt into other people's business is eighty percent of all human wisdom)
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To: Doc Savage

So now it is going to be unlawful to read a classroom as statement that their is some problems with ToE, and there are other books in the library that promote ID for reading if they wish to explore them.
Sounds like another victory for the ACLU and their supporters. No big suprise.


47 posted on 12/20/2005 8:15:58 AM PST by GregoTX (The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.)
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To: laxin4him

"The evolution crowd still can't get around creating something from nothing though. "

Gosh all rooty. And guess what, evolution has nothing to do with the origins of life at all. So, they're not involved in that little struggle.


48 posted on 12/20/2005 8:16:10 AM PST by MineralMan (godless atheist)
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To: snarks_when_bored
I look forward to reading the decision. Sounds like a blow against faux-Christian Bible-idolatry, but whether it's a clear-cut victory for science remains to be seen.

In some circles, to say that "evolution is compatible with Christianity" would require that evolution be banned from the classroom on those grounds. (I hope that's a joke!)

49 posted on 12/20/2005 8:16:46 AM PST by Physicist
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Comment #50 Removed by Moderator


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