I see it as much of an attack by science on religion. That's the problem. The science classroom should teach evolution as the theory that science accepts. It should not attack people's beliefs in intelligent design, and that's the biggest rub. There are professors who punish students who do not give up their religous views. This kind of bigotry in the scientific community is uncalled for. There are extremes on both sides.
So we all have to believe in the religion of evolution? Where is the tolerance? Where is the inclusiveness? The mullahs of Science need to be aware that millions of us will never bring up our children to believe that they are ape-men instead of created by God in His image. Science giants of the past have been Christians who believed that God created the world. Today's science pygmies are too insecure to have their religious ideas about evolution challenged. Whose fault is that?
There are many answers.
Most scientists are liberals who support our opponents. Some are inclined to applaud anyone who fights with them, even if they personally think the fight is stupid.
The best defense is a good offense. By tying up liberal lawyers defending against our lawsuits, they will not have the time or money to bring lawsuits against us.
We are a free country, so there is no official truth. Whatever the voters want to believe, that is what should be taught in the public schools.
The Darwinian model is unsophisticated, and predates our knowledge of how DNA works. If the brain can think, why can't the cell nucleus be said to think? We could generate a computer nodel of DNA, and test the theory of evolution in a simulation.
Why should all those subatomic particles obey the laws arbitrary sets of mathemathical formulae? It must be that at the subatomic level, matter is permeated and intermingled with the Divine Logos. Kai su, Plotine?
Anyway, welcome to FR, Tory.
Of course, this is utter foolishness, supported neither by the history of science itself (many of the "founders" of modern science were passionate Christians), nor by the scientific method. A Christian (or theist) looks at the laws of the Universe as the general workings of God in His creation, whereas a naturalist says we must work in the lab "as if" there were nothing but what is observable -- even if we currently do not have accurate means to observe it.
This is -of course- not about "science" at all, but about the philosophical underpinnings of science. A Christian sees God in all of life, and insists that the evidences for His existence, wisdom, morality and power are abundantly evident in creation. The Christian further claims that the inability to "see" these things comes not from the lack of evidence, but the deliberate unwillingness to see them. In fact, the modern Christian scientists claim echo Paul when he says that this blindness is the result of deliberate repression of clear and plain evidence, based on a desire to escape the presence of God (cf Romans 1:18-20).
This is certainly validated in statements by certain prominent men of science like Thomas Huxley when he claimed that he adopted a naturalistic worldview more from a desire to pursue sexual activity without guilt than from evidentiary examination, and from Thomas Watson's statement that he and Crick were driven to discover dna's structure primarily by a desire to escape a worldview which included God.
Since much of American evangelicalism is shallow, surface, uninformed and silly.... AND since we have hopped into bed with the Republican Party as though it was the messiah, there are all sorts of excesses and embarrassments in what they are trying to do. (to forstall the hail of slings and arrows, I will add that I have voted Republican in every election since Nixon).
The bottom line here is that it is a debate over how science should be done, not over whether "evolution" is true or not. Lots of Christiasn and genuinely confused secular scientists gloss right past it, but it is the only thing of real substance being barked about.
The debate is about the proper role of the teaching of religion.
For some reason Creatinists/IDers (CRIDers as I call them) believe that Creationism is an "alternate theory" even though it doesn't meet any of the scientific criteria as a "theory." It is like saying "angels hold planes aloft" is an alternate "theory" for aerodynamics.
Religion should be introduced as philosophy/theology/mythology. Now the other day I read where they didnt want to discuss religion in a phiosophy class and THAT was an attack on religion.
Another problem is that many don't just believe in evolution. Many people are hard left athiests who use evolution as a bludgeon against the church. Unfortunately, we have little choice but to fight evolution everywhere, for this reason.
"Churches urged to back evolution"
And Bin Laden urged US to convert to Islam.
As many Americans never understood that whole monarchy concept you all have going on over there.
If you choose to believe that you're evolved from simians, fish, or even lichen, so be it. Just return the courtesy and allow us 'foolish believers' to continue thinking we were created by God.
Cheers!
The purpose of Intelligent Design/Creationsim is to destroy and discredit the Conservative Movement. The people that push this crap are either Evil, because they know this is a Lie, or they are ignorant dupes and Useful Idiots and don't know any better, in which case they should stay off these Threads because they just spew the same refuted-garbage time after time.
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Yes, and it has been a war on religion since prayer was removed from schools. Something that was practiced for ~150 years with the same Constitution. In any case, the science will stand if it is true. The mere fact that a label is not permitted because it establishes religion is evidence of the warfare in this nation. The Democrats like some of the 15%(or the 7% Republicans) of Americans choose to filibuster rather than accede to the wishes of the electorate. As the case in Pennsylvania shows, the people should decide, not the courts nor a minority. The outcome in Pennsylvania may not be final, however.
There exists no vehement assault on science in general, only on those areas that have claimed to have swept the field of competitors. Finally, as it is proper and fitting in a democratic form of government, all warfare should be decided at the ballot box, not in the streets or in the courts.
It's a mystery to those of us on the pro-evolution (i.e. rational) side too. But now that you're here, you'll get a real taste of the turmoil.
Thanks for posting the article.
Jut picking a nit, but it's CHURCH and State..not 'religion'.
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Intelligent explanations of the real issue here would be appreciated!
IMHO, the evolution vs creationism uproar is quite simple.
Evolutionists maintain that everything was created by a biomechanical process, brought about by the trial and error of nature. This makes humanity an accident.
Creationists believe the world was conceived and constructed by a higher being, brought about by His will and design. This makes humanity a miracle.
While creationism doesn't necessarily exclude evolution, evolution DOES exclude creationism.
You'd think in a land where we have the ability to freely discuss anything, we'd be able to find a middle ground.
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As a historical footnote, the Bible was used regularly in schoolrooms up to about 1950.
The monoploistic educational bureaurcracy has difficulty when the public attempts to influence education. This explains the passionate opposition to school vouchers as well as the rise of home schooling. ID is not nearly the threat to science as is the dogma emminating from the Ivory Tower which will use the courts and the ACLU to impose their will on a recalcitrant public. In other words; how dare the peasants lecture their betters.
And finally, this ultimately goes back to the establishment clause in the US Constitution and how it should be interpretted vis-a-vis schools and religion. Since the 1960's the courts have upheld a God-free zone in the American classrooms, quite often to absurd lengths. ID is the push back.