Posted on 05/04/2007 10:51:10 AM PDT by Hal1950
First case too that I’ve ever known the CIA to be experts of airliner flight characteristics ahead of the FAA and the NTSB.
The color used by Islamic militants...
Can’t say I’ve ever heard of taking hydrocarbons and air and converting them into an inert gas before. Let me guess, you burn the hydrocarbon in air and then pump the CO, NO, No2, CO2, other minor gases, and H2O back into the fuel tank, right? How come no details more and just how they’re doing that? Smoke and mirrors BS to the sheeple.
It was too high for a MANPAD and the damage was in the wrong area for an IR missile anyway. Additionally, too much damage was done for the typical MANPAD warhead.
Did the USN shoot it with an SM2? That would be fascinating, as they got an entire crew to keep the secret, as well as the fellows on shore that had to account for a missing missile. And why would we shoot one of our own airliners? The area is no where near any warning areas, and no missile ops were NOTAMed.
For unexplained reasons, eyewitness accounts of plane crashes are notoriously unreliable, even among knowledgeable witnesses.
Any conspiracy is possible if you accept the idea that you can get 500 otherwise disinterested people to keep silent.
Too late for the airframe to continue service as a passenger transporter, though.
But soon enough to function as a cargo plane.
Ironic, no?
"P"? For Pierre? I think he's dead.
Yes, and how does this avert missles from breaching the plane?
Actually it was either an FBI or FAA theory, but I'll never buy it. Supposedly Flight 800 zoom climbed 3,000 feet, wings level, after its nose was blown off by a center fuel tank explosion. Without pilot or autopilot input (both gone from Flight 800) any plane in a zoom climb would've quickly fallen off on one wing, stalled, and augered in. The odds against this official scenario are probably about one trillion to one, which is why I'll never buy it.
One more note -- the official scenario posited a fuel probe (used to measure fuel level) caused the center fuel tank explosion. People who talk about the explosion being caused by a fuel pump spark are even more poorly informed than WorldNut Daily readers.
I'm not aware that Boeing has ever admitted fault though they agreed to make the changes the FAA ordered. Can you point me to the documentation where they did?
Referencing the OFFICIAL FBI report on TWA 800, Whitehouse Security Adviser Richard Clark officially stated the plane continued to climb another 1,500 ft AFTER the nose was blown off. I'd like to see that duplicated.
The following personally prepared report of two airborne witnesses scuttles the conspiracy theorists missile shootdown notions. Everybody originally believed the huge fireball explosion took place at 13,800 feet at about 8:31:12 but it's clear from the detailed report of these 2 airborne witnesses that the huge fireball exploded at or below 7500 feet long after 8:31:12 and it's accordingly obvious that by then all the wreckage was falling. There was only one fiery streak - which immediately preceeded the huge fireball explosion, lasted only momentarily and was also descending.
THE REPORT OF SVEN FARET AND KEN WENDELL:
Situation:
Pilot : Sven Faret 1.516.349.5999 x1#
Passenger : Ken Wendell 1.516.271.2681
8500 feet over Riverhead LI, NY.
Apx 20:40 hrs, July 17, 1996
N1182J climbing at 95 knots (AC-12 Privately Owned)
090 heading
Visibility 8 miles in haze below. Top of haze 6500 feet
Visibility 50+ miles above haze
Setting sun lighting up clouds to the north, above the haze
Ground very dark, Ground surface lights outlining Long Island
Ocean waters very black
Prior contact with Long Island departure control on 118.00.
Frequency change approved, squawking 1200.
Monitoring 118.00, listening to local traffic.
Observation:
Being cautious of traffic in a dark sky, we had all marker lights, strobes and sky flasher operating on our aircraft. Ken pointed out traffic at 3 o'clock low (actually 2:30). Sven saw a white light steady in the sky. My first impression was landing lights pointing towards us putting it in Northerly direction. Ken saw 2 lights very close together. A short "pin flash of light " appeared on the ground (perhaps water). Very shortly thereafter the white light exploded instantaneously into a huge red-orange ball. My initial thoughts were "who's shooting fireworks tonight. " The magnitude of the fire ball, and altitude, quickly (less than a second) ruled that out. Immediately thereafter a large fire ball emerged from the bottom of the initial fireball, accelerating straight down, as if it had just started to fall. Like a teardrop it drew with it a tail of fire down to the water surface. We watched intently as the descending fire fell closer to the water. Sven was awaiting the fire to illuminate the water surface as it fell. At the same moment a pilot reported it to the controller on 118.00. A second pilot responded and then we reported it. We saw it hit the water, lighting up the surrounding surface very well. Large splashes could be seen all around the fire. The fire on the surface was relatively small, but was spreading quickly. I asked Ken " What was that!?... It's probably the National Guard boys losing a C130 or something...Maybe they shot down one of their own planes."
We proceeded to fly over to the smoke cloud. As we crossed over the shore line I looked down and saw 3 boats enroute to the fire, about 25% of the way. I estimated the flames to be 6-7 miles off shore. We watched intently seeing a flashing light at the SE edge of the flames, but it soon stopped. We observed a steady blinking light drifting SW away from the scene. Ken said it appeared to be a helicopter just west of the flames. Sven thought it could have been a marker beacon on a life raft. This was about 5+ minutes after the explosion. We approached the black-gray smoke cloud on the west side. We were at 7700 feet and were at the top edge of the cloud. The cloud center was at 7500 feet. There were 2 small bumps atop it. There was no smoke or smoke trails above it. It was still lit up a little by the sun, clear above. There was a tornado like tail leaving the bottom of it leading down to the flames. It had a small arc in it as the winds gently moved the cloud NNW. I said to Ken " I have an eery feeling about this place, what ever stung this thing could sting us too. Let's bolt out-a-here." We swung north. As we were turning, we saw twin engine commuter traffic above us at 8000+ traveling NW. We called Flight service on 122.6 and reported what we saw. We flew back to Riverhead and East. Over Mattituck Airport we decided that the event had to be enough of a finale for the evening. We called approach on 132.25 for clearance back to Islip. We also told that controller what we saw.
Immediate Personal Impressions:
No thoughts of commercial air traffic accident.
Some aircraft with a lot of fuel.
A missile attack seems improbable, but not impossible.
The quickness of the eruption.
A white light exploding into a fire ball.
Very vertical accelerating descent of debris.
The length of the flame tail extending from the descending debris.
Clear sky above the gray smoke cloud.
Dark thin drifting smoke trail down to the debris on the surface.
Post Flight Actions:
We returned back to the hanger and called our wives. We let them know that we were OK, in case they might have heard of any air accident reports. When we got to Ken's house, we heard that a 747 went down. We called Fox News and told them what we saw.
Post Media Personal Impressions:
We were interviewed by the FBI and NTSB. They took our report, but we felt that they did not capture the detail we expressed, or the certainty of our facts.
Comments:
Although Sven & Ken are in no position to conclude anything, this piece of the puzzle MUST fit into any official version of this incident.
Notes: Only burning debris was visible to us.
Feb 97: Addendum:
Time has passed, the mystery of the downing of Flight 800 still eludes us. (probably not all of us). Until all data is evaluated, we’ll have to wait for the official facts. From an idealistic view, there is no reason to think otherwise. (what a perfect world we live in). Since Ken & Sven made this report public, we have heard many opinions on our sighting. We saw what we saw and report it as such. We have nothing to gain or loose. It has apparent that some aviation experience is required in reading this report. There is one fact that bothers us, however. No mention is ever made of the fact that the explosion was at 7500 feet! We do not dispute the fact that something happened at 13,800 feet, but what happened after that. There is 5000 feet unaccounted for.
We would like to emphasize:
We approached the black-gray smoke cloud on the west side. We were at 7700 feet and were at the top edge of the cloud. The cloud center was at 7500 feet. There were 2 small bumps atop it. There was no smoke or smoke trails above it. It was still lit up a little by the sun, clear above. We don’t why this has never been discussed in any scenarios.
Nov 97: Addendum:
In our opinion, the CIA presentation of what happened to flight 800 seems to be the best explanation to date. There are of course, different opinions. Ken & I agree that it's closest we'll get to an official explanation with the facts as presented.
http://208.65.234.212/flight_800.shtml
Take the nose off of a plane and it will shift the center of gravity behind the center of lift causing it to climb.
If the center of pressure is moved far enough rearward by a large nose falling off, the plane won’t want to yaw, either, and should continue in a straight line, even though it has the aerodynamics of a brick wall (with a 150 foot tail).
They’re adding missile deflectors? Kewl!
The Sister Plane to TWA800 Blew up when hit by lightning
Sure it was the wing tank, and not the center fuel tank, but it shows a pattern of exploding fuel tanks on 747-131's.
It was too high for a MANPAD and the damage was in the wrong area for an IR missile anyway. Additionally, too much damage was done for the typical MANPAD warhead.
Good questions. The FBI/FAA investigation only released radar data showing ship traffic within a five or 10 mile radius of the explosion. I can't remember the radius, however, all of the ships shown on the radar -- about seven of them -- were accounted for. Non-government investigators looked at a five or 10 mile larger radius radar pic and found dozens of unaccounted for vessels. So the missile could've been something larger than a MANPAD, launched from a ship. That would answer your questions about altitude and amount of damage.
As to your question about where the damage occured, I've read that Soviet heat seeking missiles are programmed to turn 90 degrees towards the heat source if they overtake it and detonate on impact/proximity, giving them a second chance. That may or may not be true, but, it makes a lot of sense when you consider how many U.S. air-to-air missiles used in Vietnam simply flew by their targets when they lost track.
A 3,000 ft. zoom climb, wings level, with no pilot, no autopilot, jammed hydraulics, streaming burning fuel from a gaping, assymetrical opening...
I just can't believe that.
Inert smoke and invisible mirrors.
Where did this radar data come from?
No matter, this thread proves one thing, almost no-one believes the Clintoon’s CIA, FBI NTSB cock a mani theory.
One day, the truth on the Flight 800 and Oklahoma City bombing will be known.
The Coast Guard, IRRC.
Read the NTSB report on it and detail and you will have the truth. Try a few of the experiments.
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