DUer gets response from Forensic Document Examiner

9/11/04

[lowbridge]

The_Casual_Observer (1000+ posts) Sat Sep-11-04 06:12 PM Original message

I received a reply from "expert" who was quoted by Freepers

regarding the memos:

My examination was based on a number of factors. Perhaps the most important thing ... I could find no typewriter font (including the IBM Executive) that matched exactly the Times font letter for letter in the questioned documents (there was always some difference/variation) in the questioned letters when compared with the database Times fonts for that time period. The "th" superscript could have existed on some IBM Selectrics, proportional spacing also existed, and Times fonts have been around a long time. However, I was able to produce in Microsoft Word a document that when compared with the questioned memos showed no significant differences in the letter forms, spacing, indentations, etc.

My findings were that the questioned letters/memos "very probably" were computer-generated using Word or WordPerfect. Without examining the original documents, I cannot be positive. Since then, more information has come to light that confirms my findings.

Thank you for your comments. They are appreciated.

Sandra Ramsey Lines
Forensic Document Examiner

"Since then, more information has come to light that confirms my findings. " ---Huh??????

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x2340754

[Libertina]

LOL Send over the medical team as the DUers begin slitting their wrists.. Or will they just pretend this entire incident didn't happen and need the straight jackets instead?

[js1138]

Here's a reply:

>>
This isn't some hokey two-bit outfit like, say, Fox News.

Are you seriously suggesting CBS didn't have these doc's examined on their own?

In that case, I have a couple of world trade towers to sell you.
<<

[JLS]

Kerning most likely.

[kingu]

Fonts, line spacing, lack of typing skills, persons in memo, centering, terms, and most especially the sigs -- I'd be shocked if there was any document expert in the world who would definatively state that these could possibly be real.

The problems with so many parts just exceed any other likely result than it being a forgery.

A shame that they can't get this over at DU.

[JLS]

A shame that they can't get this over at DU.
_____________________________________________________

Put yourself in their shoes, Kerry is tanking, Bush was great at the convention. Their guys try to smear Bush and FR is a big part of showing it is fake. FR matters in the election and DU sits there sucking their thumb?

This must all be very tough for them to take.

[kenth]

And they still argue that it doesn't matter that the documents are fake... that the only thing that matters is the content. LOL! Don't they have guys in white attire to pick these people up and place them in rubber rooms for the good of the community?

[Bernard]

OK - I'll try to connect the dots. Has anybody compared the font in these documents to the font in John Kerry's released military service records?

[Roscoe Karns]

It's a beautiful thing to behold!

[kingu]

Reading some of the other threads, yeah, it's time to pull out the white coats and shuffle off the residents over at DU to the Happy Acres. Chemtrails? Media rigging the election to make Bush win? I thought there were some rather tight tinfoil hats over here, but geeze, these folks make ours look like sane, learned statesmen.

[right way right]

At DU its like another planet!

I'm buying stock in drug companies that make Anti-depressants late October.

[Straight Vermonter]

Better put some ice on that.

[Flash Bazbeaux]

Sure, don't you grasp the logic?
1, Bush shirked his duty. We can't prove it, but we know it.

2. Then we get the memos. The memos prove what we knew all along, that Bush shirked his duty,

3. Then we find out that the memos are faked.

4. But that's OK, because it does not matter whether they are faked or not, because their contents, that Bush shirked his duty, is true. in fact, we have known it all along. See No. 1.

[JLS]

I thought there were some rather tight tinfoil hats over here, but geeze, these folks make ours look like sane, learned statesmen.
_________________________________________________________

Exactly. Very odd group over there. They do like to swear alot making me wonder if it is a young group?

[lowbridge]

FR matters in the election and DU sits there sucking their thumb?

The biggest thing they thought they had on Bush, just before this memo controversy, was a photograph of Bush taken around 1970. In it, Bush is in uniform, wearing the AFOUA award ribbon, which was awarded to his Unit.

They thought Bush was wearing a ribbon he wasnt supposed to wear and they were besides themselves with delight at finally having something to nail Bush with. But as time went on and people looked up the award regulations, doing the research, it was becoming clear that Bush did have the right to wear the ribbon.

The DUers tortuously saw their moment of glory slipping through their fingers ever so slowly. All they could do was grasp at straws as their theory went down in flames right before their very eyes. It was hillarious to watch.

And not so soon after that, this memo forgery occurs. FR is on it like white on rice. The DUers laugh at us, calling us "stupid" and "desperate" for saying the memos were forgeries. Only to watch our theories take off like a rocket and get covered all over the world by the mainstream media.

Now they are grasping at every straw they can.

"Karl Rove planted these forgeries! The memos are genuine! It doesnt matter if the memos are forgeries or not! Who cares?"

And, god, are they ever so jealous of our noteriety now!

Why does info on DU not reach the mainstream news?

I've gotten more laughter from the DUers in the past few days, than in the entire time of their sites existence.

[Ostlandr]

I work with government documents (state, not military) from that era. There's a certain look to them- typewritten letters break up in a unique way when photocopied. My wife worked in reproduction, and had to produce readable copies of this stuff, so she knows how much of a challenge it can be with even second generation documents.
Even 1980s film ribbons (as opposed to the cloth ribbons likely used in '72) do not produce the quality of image that a laser printer gives. A point against the memos is their easy readability after being copied and scanned for so many generations.
Another point: In 1972, a file copy would most likely have been a carbon copy, not a photocopy. This quality would have been even worse than a typewritten original.
In short, I could pull some 30 year old paper from the files at my office, fire up the old Selectric, and produce a more convincing fake in the matter of a half an hour.

[lowbridge]

They do like to swear alot making me wonder if it is a young group?

I saw a webpage that had photos of one of their gatherings from a couple years ago or so. In it most of them looked about in their twenties to thirties.

[JLS]

I looked at that thread for a few posts. That idiot bragging to his boss about no WMD when in fact we have found mustard and saran gas made me give up. I can only read there in very small doses.

[lowbridge]

Interesting

http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/007779.php